Sub 4:20 training tips

Sub 4:20 and sub 9:20 seem really ambitious...

I would suggest maybe going for sub 4:30 and 9:50. Both are respectable times and they seem within your reach.

As for indoor vs. outdoor, I never ran indoor track so I'm not experienced in how the training is set up for that, however when I run outdoor track I try to develop a "second aerobic base" in a sense during the winter. During this time I would be doing some speed stuff similar to what you would do in the summer for xc except these workouts would be geared toward racing track.

For your sake, I'll let you know that I'm not a coach, nor a running expert, I just have some experience running in high school/club in college so I have an idea of what you should probably do.

Talk to your coach to get a training plan and make sure you tell him/her your goals and ambitions. Not saying sub 4:20 and 9:20 are completely out of reach, just make sure you set reasonable goals that you can achieve without training yourself into the ground-and hurting yourself.

Best of luck!

4:20 is the very ambitious goal. I ran 4:38 doubling on a 2:04 off 40mpw with no prior base phase. Should i structure a base phase during all of indoor season? or compete? I think if i have a short 4-6 week "base" phase (with tempos and strides) i will be able to compete decently well during indoor then repeat outdoor

However will that hinder my long term development?

If you need coaching email

DKnightXC1@yahoo.com

Happy to help

OG Faids wrote:

4:20 is the very ambitious goal. I ran 4:38 doubling on a 2:04 off 40mpw with no prior base phase. Should i structure a base phase during all of indoor season? or compete? I think if i have a short 4-6 week "base" phase (with tempos and strides) i will be able to compete decently well during indoor then repeat outdoor

However will that hinder my long term development?

Again, I don't know much about indoor track training/racing. However I would definitely suggest increasing your mileage from 40mpw to around 50-60, maybe 70 once or twice during the winter before indoor/outdoor. When I was in high school I was running around 40mpw and ran 2:03/4:55 since I was mostly focused on the 800. I also only did one year of xc/distance track so I couldn't really hammer the mileage too much.

However now my old high school team is running guys 60-70 mpw (sometimes 80) and they are improving like crazy. The mileage really helps the aerobic component, even if most of the miles are run at a comfortable pace. All I can suggest to you is increase your mileage slowly, and take the easy days easy and hard days hard. Make sure you get enough recovery between workouts so each workout can be as beneficial as possible. I've found that I have my best seasons when I am able to simply stay healthy throughout the whole time, so focus on that.

And also talk to your coach. I'm sure he/she will have plenty to say about your plan. They are probably more experienced than I am.

good luck, hope that helps

Compete in indoor. You only have 4 years of high school sports. After you get out of college, you won't have the opportunity to be on a team again. You will regret giving up the team experience later.

I'm not a coach.

I went from 4:41 to 4:27 Jr./Sr year. Training was disrupted by bronchitis so a few more seconds might have been possible. Sub 4:30 was my goal.

I doubled for 2 months during cross and starting again in January. I did strides nearly every day and sometimes twice a day. Doing so made my stride much more efficient.

I never raced my workouts. Since I generally was the only one doing them it wasn't a problem. Nearly every single workout was designed to learn to run fast more comfortably whether I was running 200s, 400s, 800s or a tempo run; ok, I probably pressed on my tempos.

Also look for the thread where the college guy wanted to go sub 4:24. He hasn't made it yet but his 800 went from barely breaking 2:00 to 1:52/53. He does a good job of detailing his training and where his head is at; it's just a good read.

Best of luck to you and keep us informed of your progress.

Bump

400 and 800 times/PRs?

nothing wrong with having really ambitious goals, as long as you don't get too down on yourself if you don't get there.

I went from 4:35 to 4:22 my junior year of hs, it's not unheard of for younger runners to drop big chunks of time.

My advice: Focus on having a good xc season, getting in the workouts and mileage that will help you improve on the track in the spring. I personally loved racing indoor track. We didn't take it that seriously, but it was very beneficial for my development. All the distance guys ran shorter races and worked on our speed the whole winter. It's how I figured out my best event was actually the 800 and not the 5k. If you don't run indoor, I would focus on running similar mileage to what you ran in the summer (or as much as the weather allows). Also, throw in some short, fast intervals occasionally to get you prepped for track. Just don't overdo these workouts, take plenty of rest between reps.

What I did to run a 4:18 mile a few weeks ago was nice, easy mileage, 55-60 a week, and two workouts a week consisting of many 400's and 200's. There is no crazy magical formula out there. If you wanna run fast you simply need to put in the mileage and run fast repeats to work on your turnover. A lot of it is mental.

Reboot runner wrote:

Also look for the thread where the college guy wanted to go sub 4:24. He hasn't made it yet but his 800 went from barely breaking 2:00 to 1:52/53. He does a good job of detailing his training and where his head is at; it's just a good read.

Best of luck to you and keep us informed of your progress.

That guy is me and that thread is right here

There's a lot of progress to follow but if you have time maybe you'll learn or try a few things that I tried. Also, if you have any questions about anything on that thread just let me know. Always glad to answer questions.

Knowing you 400 time would help me a lot in giving advice, but I do not think these goals are 'impossible'. Difficult, yes, but if you buckle down you can def do it.

It sounds nice to take indoor off and just go for outdoors but I'd say you should compete during indoors. Practicing racing is a great way to get better at racing. Are you able to train through these meets? Like do some of your own workouts but jsut run the meets anyways? What i'm getting at is you should up the mileage a little more (maybe double, not sure if you said you do that or not), and toss in a lot of 'tempos'. I say tempos like that because I mean all kinds of quality aerobic running, not just 20 minute fast tempos. Go out for a 6-8 miler at a decent clip (usually 6:00 pace, give or take 15 seconds, for me). Run slow the next day. Maybe do a progression run the day after. Its how I got a lot better, even at the 800.

Also, do your strides. After most longer days and especially slower easy days. Run pretty fast while staying relaxed. You're not allowed to break form on these.

Listen to your body. One day off or one low mileage day won't ruin anything, but also be able to discern aches and pains from a potential injury. Likely it'll just be aches and pains, but stay ahead of these things so you don' have to worry.

Summary: More miles, CONSISTENCY, quality aerobic miles (various tempos), all the little things, ambition, recovery, etc. It'll come. If you don't hit your times at least you'll know you tried.

Thank you! My xc season ends November 6th as I will not be racing at Footlocker nor NXR :(. I will have a few weeks to build strict aerobic base before adding in tempos and such. My 400 pr is 57 low relay split from a handheld after racing the 800 and mile..... My coach has us triple or even quadruple every meet because "its what they do in college."

During my base phase im planning on getting into the 65ish zone with 1 or 2 doubles. Then in season running mainly high 50's - 60's. In season the only doubles I have been doing are Pre meets (easy run in the am, light race specific sessions in pm i.e 4 x 200 @ 5k pace) and on Saturday meets (just an easy 3 mile shake out in the pm for some miles and an 'extended cool down' as i think of it).

Im becoming more of a fan of Progression runs, some days they feel so easy and natural. Of course my miles arent paced at 6:00 (LT for me), but progressions and tempos are around 6:20-6:40 paced. Starting at 7:00 ish and progressing down to LT by the last mile.

I think you should make sure you do your good quality strides during base phase. Your 400 isn't bad but I would expect a 4:20 miler to be at least a few seconds faster over 400. Not necessary, but it may make things easier. If you're unsure about indoor, I would run it but try to run 400's and 800's to work on that speed. I don't mean drop the mileage and strictly train for the 400/800, but build your base and use these races as tune ups and speed practice. As long as you're careful, you can run good fast strides and improve your speed and build your base at the same time. i.e. Nick Willis.

I think doing some easy short runs in the mornings as often as you can helps to get your 'main' runs a better quality. You don't have to double but I personally try to get at least 3 doubles a week. Usually 2-4 miles in the morning and about an hour of running in my main runs.

Progression runs are fantastic. You don't have to hammer the tempos or progression runs, but running comfortably fast is the best thing you can do to build a good aerobic base. As long as you're taking easy days easy and not always forcing tempos, you should see some good improvements in time. Also, remember to be patient. It can take time. Stay consistent and it will eventually pay off, I promise.