Fast in practice, not running to ability in races

A poster named, ofe, I think, posted this on here earlier this weekend.

"The two concepts that I failed to understand in high school were (1) running relaxed instead of strained, and (2) running through fatigue and pain.

These suddenly clicked into place for me in college. After seeing that the fast women were not somehow magical and beyond pain, I "got it" and I dropped under 20 for 5k within a year, off training not much more advanced from what I did in high school.(30-35 mpw) I was never a great runner, but man I wish I had figured that stuff out in the high school. It was a complete mind game.

So... focus on learning how to keep your stride quick and relaxed during workouts, and understand that the girls ahead of you are there mostly because they've learned how to roll with the fatigue better. Decide that you genuinely ought to be up with them -- get in there, stay relaxed, and hang on.”

I saw that post earlier, too. Awesome, insightful stuff.

OP, it is also possible you are running your workouts a little too fast and/or going out too fast in your races.

The post above about relaxing is right. I'd add you should change your training a bit so you are not winning every training day all the time. Don't practice running slowly though. I know that is conflicting advice, but give it a try. Ideally you come into race day with a little extra enthusiasm and rest.

Have a plan for your event that includes lap times and concentrate on your plan.

I am guessing you do very well in school as well.

Be patient and keep trying things. You'll figure it out.

Yeah, that's correct, I try to keep my gpa at least 4.5.

Do you think racing with GPS watch is a good idea? I've been very hesitant about it, because I fear i'll focus too much on the pace im running at the given moment. I do train with GPS watch, though.

Going out too fast could be an issue, I remember in track I couldn't PR in the two mile until I actually went out slower, and had predetermined splits to hit.

I do think the training is fine though (but who knows), longer runs (our longest is 7 miles at the moment) 8:45 pace, with hills and altitude.

I really want to get under 21 this year for the 5k, and my past 3 races have been run just over 23 (all faster than anything I ran last year)

Normally I would not advocate racing cross with a GPS. However, it could be a good tool to help you go out controlled for the first 1 to 1.5 miles. The trick after that would be to ignore it completely.

need mental ability wrote:

How would you build mental ability, when the physical aspect is already there?

I'm typically leading the workouts, and always leading the long runs for my team, (running the most mileage on the girl's team) but every time in race when there is a pack, and girls from my own team try to pass me, I somehow freak out.

And I know that I'm not racing my max, as I'm not tired at the end of the race, as i should be (as i know I have been in track,) and my legs are fine.

For reference, I was running 35 mpw during the summer (I would do more, but the coach doesn't want to "break us"

How would you just mentally just tell yourself "go for it"? Because that seems to be my issue

Hi there need mental ability.

You have already received excellent advice from the previous responses.

The only thing I would add is:

If you need advice on mental ability…you should not ever ask rojo for any advice…because he has no mental ability.

OK?

need mental ability wrote:

How would you build mental ability, when the physical aspect is already there?

I'm typically leading the workouts, and always leading the long runs for my team, (running the most mileage on the girl's team) but every time in race when there is a pack, and girls from my own team try to pass me, I somehow freak out.

And I know that I'm not racing my max, as I'm not tired at the end of the race, as i should be (as i know I have been in track,) and my legs are fine.

For reference, I was running 35 mpw during the summer (I would do more, but the coach doesn't want to "break us"

How would you just mentally just tell yourself "go for it"? Because that seems to be my issue

First, don't race your teammates. Try to get with a group of women running fast, and decide that you're going to hang with them until the end of the race, or until you collapse.

You need to run on Pure Hate. Use your aggressive feelings. Let the Hate flow through you. You'll dominate them even more than you do in workouts.

Of course, remain relaxed as the Hate flows. It won't flow if you are not relaxed.

I was always a better training runner than racing runner myself. My teammates always thought I should have placed higher in races as I always killed practice sessions. In retrospect I think it was because I let the pace come to me in practice, always starting off slower and gradually building up to race pace, vs trying to go with the leaders in a race and dying

Maybe you should try extended warm ups and hard strides leading up to the start of the race to get your body ready for a hard pace up front

You may want to realize that you are racing your training and the other girls are probably not AND more talented. You'll get closer if you actually run with or even slightly behind them in training but chances are they really are better than you.

I swear those doofuses that think everyone is born equal and it's just a matter of putting it all together have created unrealistic expectations on this board.

need mental ability wrote:

Yeah, that's correct, I try to keep my gpa at least 4.5.

Do you think racing with GPS watch is a good idea? I've been very hesitant about it, because I fear i'll focus too much on the pace im running at the given moment. I do train with GPS watch, though.

You have some good insight into your own behavior, so you are off to a great start.

Task #1

In my opinion, you should practice running negative splits with the gps watch during trainign. After you do it a few times with the gps watch, try to do it with just a stopwatch. Once you have a decent feel, try it on "race day." It won't be easy to learn how to comfortably start a little slow and relaxed, confident you can do some faster splits later. Take it in small steps. That won't be easy for you. But, it should help during a race.

Task #2

It would actually be a good challenge for you to slow down the training one other day. Have a plan to slow down one workout letting others finish ahead of you. It won't feel normal, but it will be good practice. Talk yourself through it while it's happening.

Between slowing a workout down and practicing negative splits AND still trying to get some fast workouts in, it will be quite a bit to manage.

Good luck and best wishes. Aim high and run with passion.

800 On Pure Hate wrote:

You need to run on Pure Hate. Use your aggressive feelings. Let the Hate flow through you. You'll dominate them even more than you do in workouts.

I used a "special block hate peaking phase" for my race this weekend. The hate flow felt great! I can still feel it now during my "hate taper" this week.

The only side effect... was about 17 deleted posts on the forum for themes involving spelling, math errors, stupid people…and some "hate speech."

(I called someone "troll pup".)!!!!!

The hate is really flowing now.

Some people at this forum are going to feel my hate flow all over them... like a tidal wave of hate!!!

Oh boy Alberto!!!…... and Paula!!!

This is really fun.

you're running too fast, and/or too much in practice.

I used to have that problem in college... try going out slow, and accept the fact that you aren't as good as you think you are. Maximize potential on the day.

Also try running workouts slower and more relaxed. Look at drew hunter... he works out @90percent and seldom at faster than race pace. try it

Running great in practice is a subjective view. Racing is not.

What workout are you killing? Speed? Endurance?

If you are killing track workouts and not racing well then you probably lack endurace and vice versa.

Kill a track workout of speed and then tear up a 5 mile THreshold run and you will likely see your races get better. Or you will know what you need to work on.

OK, I will admit I came to this thread to read a humorous stream of ridicule (like the 'roast' of a celebrity). There are actually meaningful, useful posts here, though!

My 2 cents:

You race too much. I'm older now, but even in HS I picked a handful of races per year, with maybe 3 of those truly important, meaning, I peaked for them. Age slows recovery, I think, so these days I've got like 3 or 4 on the calendar for the next year. I did a few more in my teens, but none. Of this once-a-week stuff. I don't run 40 races a year now and didn't when I was 15. I can now and could then peak and taper. This allowed me to (probably) come pretty close to my potential, meaning whatever I was genetically capable of. You can't.

The catch:

To follow the above advice and go into races mentally and physically rested, able to truly give all you have in one race, you can't be on a school team. HS or college. Read 'Sub 4' about Alan Webb and Michigan. Near the end is an excerpted interview with El G and his coach. They say the NCAA isn't just a waste of time but disadvantageous for any running 800 or longer.

Haile nor Kenny B never ran for a school. Look at anyone near the top now: you may be surprised at how sparse their racing schedules are! Some of them are just tune-up races, too. Rupp had, I suspect, 2 this year that were REALLY important (both Oly finals). Maybe the US selections for both of those, too. That's 4, and it's nowhere near one a week. In fact, I'm aware of maybe 2 or 3 more he did all year including just going through the motions at minor events.

Not everyone will agree, of course. In the Webb book, Lagat weighs in and says NCAA, with it's heavy racing schedule, is actually good for you! HS teams are worse in my mind. I didn't see any reason to fool with it when a HS student myself, and I have some PRs from those days that I can't break now (full marathon among them)! I could use the training I had partially because I wasn't overraced and just running on fumes. When there are 2 hard workouts a week plus a race, that can be like 20 significant efforts in a given month. No surprise that none of them stands out as a supreme effort that surprised even yourself. No 'Wow, I didn't know I had a 34 10k in me!'

You, like most of your age group, may believe that without school sanction sport has no value or meaning. Fortunately for my running resume, I don't think that, but many do - nearly everyone in the US under 25, in fact. If you're in this group, then not only is running at my age impossible, but you may never come close to what you are truly capable of.

You are doing yourself a disservice by not at least thinking about this!

Run at threshold pace, learn daniels