Coach in need of help/opinions

What exactly are you asking?

There is less cost associated with keeping an underperforming XC athlete around, so it doesn't really matter as much. If the worst basketball player on the team doesn't put in effort, the starters he's drilling against don't get the maximal benefit of the exercise. If the slowest guy on the XC team slacks off, the varsity guys don't even notice.

You basically need a solid stable of ~10 guys in order to have a great XC team. It sounds like you have that. If your 11-60 guys want to screw around, you can try to motivate them, but ultimately it's their loss if they don't want to work.

The best motivation you can provide is to get those top few guys to have some success. Once your top 7 is competing for state championships, that winning attitude has a way of trickling down to the JV kids. Work with the kids who want to work hard. As the team improves, more and more kids will become a part of that group.

Winning is contagious. So is losing

--Vince Lombardi

Great Oak has cuts in XC. So does Dana Hills. When Sloughing-off becomes the team culture, winning does not. It's you team. What are your values?

I agree with this but there's more to it than that. My junior and senior year of high school, the varsity guys were killing it but we still were not attracting any good talent nor were the jv guys particularly motivated.... One of our jv guys put on a super hero cape during the race as a joke. It was a complete embarrassment to the program, even if it was just jv.The problem that sometimes arises when you have a really good set of 7-10 runners and then have everyone else is that a huge gulf in ability seems to arise. Your 8th man might be running 18:30 for the 5k but your 9th is running 21 minutes. It might end up appearing impossible to some kids to improve that much so they won't train on the off season, won't try as hard in workouts, etc. The best cross country teams are those where the 7th spot is always up for grabs every single race. When there's a jv guy knocking at the door of being on varsity constantly. It pushes the 5-7 guys, which pushes the 1-5 guys. So, it is important to instill a good amount of seriousness into jv. Try to spot talents in jv who might be varsity with some good training and invest in those kids. You shouldn't let your 30th person on the team treat the team as a joke because, well, high school kids are high school kids and that type of thing permeates. Treat them like athletes and they will act like athletes. I'm not saying you have to cut people, as I don't think there should be cuts in cross country, but it's okay to give them some tough love.

You made a statement not a question.

It's true, if the kids aren't or can't run 5 miles comfortably after puberty then they are not fit for cross country. Now, we all know it is easy to run 5 miles. These kids are just soft. Have the basketball player kid say the words he told t you to the entire team. Seems he's a better coach and a runner than you are. Why do you have a team of 60 if only ten are competing. Put like 30 of them back on JV and make this kid the captain.

coach d wrote:

Winning is contagious. So is losing

--Vince Lombardi

Great Oak has cuts in XC. So does Dana Hills. When Sloughing-off becomes the team culture, winning does not. It's you team. What are your values?

Both programs are huge schools with athletic drive installed in school culture. I'm guessing Great Oak cuts due to how many bus seats they have.

I'm not against cuts, but for many kids this is their only time outside and away from the books. I think these kids are worth investing in.

Can you instill work ethic? and how do you do that?

You create work ethic through expectation. You need to expect more out of these kids. If they want to be in cross country it shouldn't be acceptable that they show up to first day of practice their junior year after 2 previous years of cross country not having run all summer. The only people that should really be acceptable for are freshman.

High school kids can improve a lot in a short amount of time with the right training. That can be a huge motivating factor as well. You need to tune the training you are giving the kids such that they are able to consistently improve. This will create a positive feedback loop.

There are two things: discipline and natural selection.

Discipline can be educated and this should be the teacher's job. Some kids are enthusiastic and tend to exaggerate some days, dragging the others after them. Then next days they have troubles because are tired.

On the other hand, there is the natural selection. Some kids are simply not made for this sport. They may not have neither attraction to this sport, nor body construction, or lifestyle habits to help them.

If I were you, I would filter them.

Track their mileage and paces for 2-3 weeks.

If these vary too much, they have a consistency problem.

Ask these kids to run at their average pace and see if they can follow their assignments. If they can't, then they have a discipline issue.

Separate the disciplined kids from undisciplined kids.

And explain them why.

The toughest part is to make the kids to follow their assignments.

CWRP,

It is all about expectation. My daughter played rec basketball for 5 years through MS. We saw the varsity basketball coaches of ALL the local HSs show up at a game or two even in the sixth grade league. Remember, the best MS kids around here play CYO, the next best play select league and/or for their MS teams and then finally rec league. My daughter played point guard in the sixth grade. We had HS coaches setting expectations and talking to her about what she needed to do to improve.

On the other hand, our MS XC and track programs totally rely on self-motivation and the practices are a joke. We have a select MS track team but only THE MOST dedicated/talented kids even look into it because they practice 3! days a week and sometimes have a meet. The coach of the HS XC team that our MS feeds to can't even be bothered to drive a mile down the road to have a spring meeting with the 8th graders.

35 years ago, our HS coach met with the MS XC coach weekly. The HS XC team would run to the MS, put on the MS meet and then run back to the HS. Our weeks practices and meets were set up so MS meet days were easy days. Since that time, our HS track coaches have duplicated the idea for spring track. The expectations are set in the sixth grade. Pushing expectations does a lot for the quality of the team but it does cut the team size although I think more basketball players end up running XC...

You need to tell that kid, in no uncertain terms, to quit worrying about what everyone else on the team does and focus on himself. If he wants to worry about a whole team and each person's effort he can become a Coach when he grows up. Right now his job - and the BEST way for him to help the team - is to shut up about everybody else and run the workouts as assigned.

Whether you can see it or not, this kid is directly challenging your authority and the way you run the team. If you are ok with that from a kid who has been there for only a few weeks and I am guessing has put up exactly zero results, then I guess it's ok.

You would be doing the kid a huge disservice by not bringing him back into line. If he gets into the ha it of making my comments like that to coaches and bosses, his professional/work life is going to be miserable. If you were a manager and a new guy came to work for you and told you I'm just a few weeks that you were doing things wrong and that your employees were lazy and incompetent would you keep him around?

Leaders don't throw people under the bus. They lead by example. This is a great teaching opportunity for you.

Just a few ideas:

- Ban Pokemon Go during training

- Long runs the day after races (8 miles)

- Separate the boys and girls onto opposite sides of the bus

The Real Deal wrote:

You need to tell that kid, in no uncertain terms, to quit worrying about what everyone else on the team does and focus on himself. If he wants to worry about a whole team and each person's effort he can become a Coach when he grows up. Right now his job - and the BEST way for him to help the team - is to shut up about everybody else and run the workouts as assigned.

Well said. I have encountered this attitude before, both in athletics teams and even coworkers in my adult life. The personality is "I am the only one giving 100%."

These guys really appreciate praise and acknowledgement, but I make sure they see me pointing out good efforts from the guys they criticize as well.

Future guy wrote:

The Real Deal wrote:

You need to tell that kid, in no uncertain terms, to quit worrying about what everyone else on the team does and focus on himself. If he wants to worry about a whole team and each person's effort he can become a Coach when he grows up. Right now his job - and the BEST way for him to help the team - is to shut up about everybody else and run the workouts as assigned.

Well said. I have encountered this attitude before, both in athletics teams and even coworkers in my adult life. The personality is "I am the only one giving 100%."

These guys really appreciate praise and acknowledgement, but I make sure they see me pointing out good efforts from the guys they criticize as well.

Why is this kid only giving 100%? He should be giving 110%.

I'm guessing you do not run with the kids.

1 start running with them

2 run handicap practices - start groups of 10 3minutes apart - slowest group first

3 push-ups and planks for the last finishers for the # minutes they trailed by

LEAD

You need to ask yourself what you want out of the program. What you expect, not what some 16 year old kid expects. It sounds like you may be coming from a different place than your ex-hoops kid... what are your priorities for your team?

To me, you have to lead by example and motivate with positive feedback to kids who put out the effort--- in your eyes, not the eyes of a 16 year old. Some kids will become competitive and work harder, others will not. Spend your time with the kids who want to be better no matter how slow or fast they might be. I would cut kids who are not trying in your mind, unfortunately, 'not trying' is subjective so there may be no easy way to define it. But, you are the coach so you decide.

btw, how are you going to make the 'team pay for it' if some kids don't put out the effort??? make the kids who just ran your workout with effort, run it a again? make the whole team run suicides? hoops not equal to distance running. tell your hoops kids to continue the great work and to lead by example. tell him you believe others will follow his lead and the team will improve with his help.

This is excellent advice. Take the time to decide what priorities you want your team to have and what values you want to instill in the kids. Your expectations, discipline, and training should reflect and support those values.

I love this topic... I was just talking about it with the football coach this am. Im from a small school 320 kids. I have 20 kids out for xc 10/10. I would love to be able to cut some or tell them if they are not going to work they should find another sport. But we are a new school, prep school with tough academics. Right now Im just trying to get people to come out to groom and build. I say you wont be varsity if you miss more than 5 days of practice. I am already, just 4 weeks in to the point where that would be like 6 boys and 4 girls who would qualify. At this rate it will be liek 1-2 qualifying by end of season. Football is also in the same boat. School has been open 8 years, but the programs started getting serious 2-3 years ago when they brought in these new coaches. But changing culture WHILE trying to build a team is a lot harder than i thought it would be in a small school