Is this trail runnable in a couple of hours if I start at sunrise? I'm fit (225 marathonner). My concern is the crowds
Is this trail runnable in a couple of hours if I start at sunrise? I'm fit (225 marathonner). My concern is the crowds
To the river and back?
how far down you going?
Maybe to the river, if I can fit it in
Hmmm, 16 miles round trip - over 8,000 elevation change in 2 hours? That's a bit ambitious.
Mileages and features along Bright Angel Trail[1]
Distance (mi) Elv (ft) Location Trail Junction
0 6860 Trailhead, South Rim Rim Trail
1.6 5729 Mile-and-a-half Resthouse
3.1 4748 Three Mile Resthouse
4.9 3800 Indian Garden Tonto Trail
8.0 2480 River Resthouse, Colorado River River Trail
9.5 2480 Bright Angel Campground (via the River Trail)
9.9 2546 Phantom Ranch
Beagles wrote:
Is this trail runnable in a couple of hours if I start at sunrise? I'm fit (225 marathonner). My concern is the crowds
Unprepared people die doing this.
You're asking this question here means you're one of the unprepared.
http://articles.latimes.com/2004/aug/17/news/os-canyondeath17The OP won't die. I have done 3 RRRs and a fit marathoner should have no problem going to the river and back. But it is harder than he probably thinks and it will take longer than he thinks. The good thing about Bright Angel is that there is water along the route.
You could shave some miles off by going down the Kaibab trail and back up Bright Angel. Kaibab is steeper but shorter. At sunrise, it's spectacular, and you get way out into the canyon in the first mile or two.
I walked down and back in something like 7 hours, but that was taking my time and sitting around at Phantom Ranch for a while. Also, this was in November when heat was not an issue.
I've actually done Bright Angel to the river and back. Jog/walk to the river was about 2 hours, walk up was about 3 hours. The entire thing took 8 hours because of time hanging at the river and Indian Garden.
I would advise you to take your time on it, the hike is well worth it
Beagles wrote:
Is this trail runnable in a couple of hours if I start at sunrise? I'm fit (225 marathonner). My concern is the crowds
Join Strava and look at the segments there to get a sense of how fast people are running it. You can see for some people what kinds of PRs they sport as well as how long it takes them. There's also a Facebook group for this kind of thing if you can find it.
Get an early start and you won't get stuck behind too many Mule trains. South kaibab is less populated but there no water.
Jim Walmsley just did a bright angel-kaibab loop in 2:39 (20 miles) this week, set Strava CRs the whole way. He started at 7am.
Bright Angel out and back is easier but you'll hit a fair amt of traffic coming up but it won't be significant...
Thanks for the replies all.
People die crossing the road too. I'm pretty sure I am not going to die. If I start early - it won't even get that hot.
I can't really be bothered running 20 miles, so will just do an out and back I think.
Looks pretty brutal coming back up. Should be fun.
Beagles wrote:
Thanks for the replies all.
People die crossing the road too. I'm pretty sure I am not going to die. If I start early - it won't even get that hot.
I can't really be bothered running 20 miles, so will just do an out and back I think.
Looks pretty brutal coming back up. Should be fun.
Just go ahead and read the link I posted, tough guy. And do more research so that instead of being "pretty sure" you can be "absolutely sure".
I thought trail running in the Grand Canyon was banned.
I read the story. Wow, her running companion was basically responsible for her death. Terrible, tragic story.
But Bright Angel actually has water. And many more people, generally speaking. I think the OP should be fine.
Also, coach d, what exactly would the rangers do to enforce that? Enforce racewalking rules along the hundreds of miles of trails in Grand Canyon?
Chuckle.
coach d wrote:
I thought trail running in the Grand Canyon was banned.
Right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzaZkRnrQA8rety wrote:
Hmmm, 16 miles round trip - over 8,000 elevation change in 2 hours? That's a bit ambitious.
It ain't happening. The park rangers are on the look out for runners. Runners assume they own the trails and get upset with hikers and people on horseback. Runners are the ones who usually do honor the code of passing people on trail and create dangerous situations: spooked riders, forcing hikers too close to the edge, and similar. Runners also create more trail damage than hikers.
It ain't happening wrote:
rety wrote:Hmmm, 16 miles round trip - over 8,000 elevation change in 2 hours? That's a bit ambitious.
It ain't happening. The park rangers are on the look out for runners. Runners assume they own the trails and get upset with hikers and people on horseback. Runners are the ones who usually do honor the code of passing people on trail and create dangerous situations: spooked riders, forcing hikers too close to the edge, and similar. Runners also create more trail damage than hikers.
It'll happen; it happens everyday.
Not sure where you get "runners also create more trail damage than hikers" info because that simply isn't true.
itllhappen wrote:
It ain't happening wrote:It ain't happening. The park rangers are on the look out for runners. Runners assume they own the trails and get upset with hikers and people on horseback. Runners are the ones who usually do honor the code of passing people on trail and create dangerous situations: spooked riders, forcing hikers too close to the edge, and similar. Runners also create more trail damage than hikers.
It'll happen; it happens everyday.
Not sure where you get "runners also create more trail damage than hikers" info because that simply isn't true.
You are wrong. Runners are watched in National parks because they do not obey the rules. Runners kick up a lot more dust, and most refuse to pack their crap out because it slows them down.
A fool like you needs special help.
Changes Coming For Grand Canyon Runners
Certainly, not many people are running across in the middle of the summer. At least they probably shouldn’t be. But according to park staff, there can be up to 800 people inside the canyon on peak weekends in May and October. (Those numbers aren’t limited to runners or categorized by speed of movement.)
Phantom Ranch lodge is rustic and only designed for about 85 people. The campgrounds hold another 90. That overcrowding is forcing the park to address some of the problems the runners bring with them.
And many park users think those problems are plentiful.
Tales abound of exhausted runners and fastpackers—at some point on the speed continuum, the line between the two blurs—collapsing at the doorstep of Phantom Ranch or vomiting in the campgrounds. In their desperation and delirium, they cut to the front of water lines, clog trails and picnic areas by lying down, and leave things behind them. Rangers and more experienced visitors have to attend to struggling crossers and drive them the long way back around the canyon if they can’t make the return journey. These are not runners deliberately doing anything wrong; these are simply runs gone awry. But in the daily grind of overwhelming volume, these small transgressions become too much for the canyon to endure.
“They’re using the Grand Canyon as their gymnasium,†says Ranney. Even though his wife is a runner, he doesn’t believe running has a place in the canyon, where other extreme sports like mountain biking, paragliding and motor boating have already been banned. “I think running through the Grand Canyon should not be allowed.â€
This fall, the park will release a new draft of its backcountry management plan, with the process so far garnering hundreds of comments—including the calls to ban runners. The plan is expected to address not just running, but other growing adventure sports like canyoneering and packrafting. This past spring, the park released courtesy guidelines for runners, covering things like cleaning up your trash, yielding to mule packs and not using the canyon as a bathroom.
“I don’t think everyone understands what their impacts are,†says Rachel Bennett, the park’s environmental protection specialist.
They’ve also begun preliminary data collection and a pilot survey, says Linda Jalbert, wilderness coordinator for the park—counting the people on trails and asking them questions about their use. While the information still needs to be analyzed, they have seen an overall increase in the number of people in the canyon and in large groups doing events or crossings, such as a charity fundraiser group that dropped off busloads of people to hike/run from one rim to the other.
Unfortunately, some of those groups are not always prepared for what they’re getting into.
This past May, Jalbert says, “there were quite a few more people needing medical attention.†That puts a burden on limited staff and resources. One ranger was up all night, says Bennett, taking care of sick or injured people.
In 2004, Margaret Bradley, a 3:04 marathoner, died from dehydration on the backcountry canyon trails. Her picture now greets people at the trail entrances on the popular South Rim, as does a sign warning against attempting to cross there and back in just one day—a feat that is exactly what the growing number of runners are doing.
After the highest volume on peak weekends, Jalbert says, they get phone calls and letters complaining about the trash, crowds and rudeness as people rush past on the trails. Some of these problems are specific to runners, but many of them are simply a result of more people (whether running or not) on narrow trails and in facilities built for far fewer.
“The park has not put the money into upgrading facilities in reflection of the increased use of the park,†says Benedict Dugger, an Arizona coach and trail running guide specializing in Grand Canyon runs. Despite the fact that use in the park has increased across the board recently—4.5 million people visited the canyon last year—most of the facilities remain as they were built decades ago.
“Phantom Ranch is the exact same as 100 years ago, except they take Visa and Mastercard now,†Dugger says.
http://running.competitor.com/2014/07/news/grand-canyon_108186
It ain't happening wrote:
itllhappen wrote:It'll happen; it happens everyday.
Not sure where you get "runners also create more trail damage than hikers" info because that simply isn't true.
You are wrong. Runners are watched in National parks because they do not obey the rules. Runners kick up a lot more dust, and most refuse to pack their crap out because it slows them down.
You are making things up. "Runners kick up more dust" - really where has that been established? I've seen plenty of slobs not do a good job in at least trying to leave no trace but that's "people", not necessarily "runners". To say "most runners" refuse to pack their crap out is just you making things up with no evidence to support it.
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Running for Bowerman Track Club used to be cool now its embarrassing
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
Rest in Peace Adrian Lehmann - 2:11 Swiss marathoner. Dies of heart attack.