Is Laura Muir's 3:55.22 the CLEAN WR?

no because i suspect her of doping

Paul Chelimo wrote:

no because i suspect her of doping

Fair enough, but why? All others have known ties to doping scandals.

I'm assuming all you assume all white athletes are clean?

Her time is the 16th fastest.

Thus there are 15 faster clean times.

Donger wrote:

I'm assuming all you assume all white athletes are clean?

Not saying that at all. What I am saying is she is the only one currently not linked to a doping scandal.

Just Wonderinggg wrote:

Donger wrote:

I'm assuming all you assume all white athletes are clean?

Not saying that at all. What I am saying is she is the only one currently not linked to a doping scandal.

I don't think that that is correct. See here for example:

Just Wonderinggg wrote:

Everyone ahead of her is a suspected doper. What say you?

None of athletes above her tested* positive, why are you accusing them of doping?

* Kazankina did get a ban for a missed test, but presumably if she was British she could have blamed it on the doorbell.

Donger wrote:

I'm assuming all you assume all white athletes are clean?

Obviously.

It's not like Rupp ever gets accused of doping around here.

Disclaimer wrote:

Just Wonderinggg wrote:

Everyone ahead of her is a suspected doper. What say you?

None of athletes above her tested* positive, why are you accusing them of doping?

* Kazankina did get a ban for a missed test, but presumably if she was British she could have blamed it on the doorbell.

Come on people. I am not saying all of the people ahead of her have tested positive...but ALL of them, being either Chinese, Eastern European, or Dibaba, have been linked to well-known doping regimes/scandals. So what I am saying is it seems plausible that her time COULD be the clean WR. Something to think about.

Just Wonderinggg wrote:

Everyone ahead of her is a suspected doper. What say you?

No. Genzebe Dibaba has the clean world record.

It doesn't matter how suspicious someone is with regards to doping (and many of those in front of Muir are EXTREMELY suspicious). Unless they are caught and convicted, they are "clean" as far as the existing record-books go.

For the most part, unless the organization that ratifies World Records actually considers a world record to be invalid, it won't be invalid, regardless of what the majority of people are aware of. Right now, the "clean" world record is the same as the world record. The only way to officially get around that would be to start up a ratification process with new criteria that eliminates everyone but Muir.

For example, just look at our high school record-books. The HS record-holder for the 3200m is German Fernandez, with an 8:34. The HS record-holder for the 2-Mile is Lukas Verzbicas, with an 8:29. Even an imbecile knows that someone who ran an 8:29 for 2 miles unquestionably ran much faster than 8:34 for 3200m. However, this situation fails to meet the predetermined ratification criteria for a record by T&FN, so even though we all KNOW it should be the 8:34 3200m record, it isn't.

Obviously, the situation with the women's 1500m record situation isn't quite identical, at it is more an issue of the runners in front of Muir not FAILING the ratification criteria that keeps her from being the world record-holder.

So yes, this sort of system sometimes generates irrational situations, but for the most part, it's far better than the alternative of having a ratification system that requires "suspicion" rather than proof for validating legitimacy. Until someone else officially establishes a record-book with criteria that eliminates Dibaba, Dibaba is the clean world record-holder.

I agree with the OP's sentiment. I don't believe any of those times ahead of her to be clean (not saying whether Muir is or not). Or Flo Jo, or Koch or Kratochvilova. Yes, they will show as innocent until proven guilty but hey I guess then OJ is clean as a whistle too.

not according to the self appointed guru of doiping Steve Magness

Just Wonderinggg wrote:

Come on people. I am not saying all of the people ahead of her have tested positive...but ALL of them, being either Chinese, Eastern European, or Dibaba, have been linked to well-known doping regimes/scandals. So what I am saying is it seems plausible that her time COULD be the clean WR. Something to think about.

Everyone in North American has been linked to Carl Lewis, Ben Johnson, Lance Armstrong. Laura Muir can be linked to Paula Radcliffe, Seb Coe, Steve Cram, all of these being either English, Canadian, or American.

Seyta wrote:

[quote]Just Wonderinggg wrote:

Even an imbecile knows that someone who ran an 8:29 for 2 miles unquestionably ran much faster than 8:34 for 3200m. However, this situation fails to meet the predetermined ratification criteria for a record by T&FN, so even though we all KNOW it should be the 8:34 3200m record, it isn't..

Huh? T&FN doesn't even recognize a 3200 record. Their HS Track annual only lists the 8:29 for 2M. Maybe you're thinking of the National Federation?

This is already covered in the other Muir thread. Mods should delete this troll thread or merge it if they think there is anything of substance here.

Buttttttttttttttttt wrote:

Just Wonderinggg wrote:

Come on people. I am not saying all of the people ahead of her have tested positive...but ALL of them, being either Chinese, Eastern European, or Dibaba, have been linked to well-known doping regimes/scandals. So what I am saying is it seems plausible that her time COULD be the clean WR. Something to think about.

Everyone in North American has been linked to Carl Lewis, Ben Johnson, Lance Armstrong. Laura Muir can be linked to Paula Radcliffe, Seb Coe, Steve Cram, all of these being either English, Canadian, or American.

How are being linked to Coe and Cram the same as being linked to known doping regimes and scandals. (I'm ignoring the Radcliffe thing)

Yighowum T wrote:

Seyta wrote:

[quote]Just Wonderinggg wrote:

Even an imbecile knows that someone who ran an 8:29 for 2 miles unquestionably ran much faster than 8:34 for 3200m. However, this situation fails to meet the predetermined ratification criteria for a record by T&FN, so even though we all KNOW it should be the 8:34 3200m record, it isn't..

Huh? T&FN doesn't even recognize a 3200 record. Their HS Track annual only lists the 8:29 for 2M. Maybe you're thinking of the National Federation?

Thank you for the correction. NFHS, not T&FN.

Well... let's start with that huge Coe/blood doping thread.

Or look at how he reacted to Seppelt, and tried to stop this famous doping paper.

Or remember the free-for-all dirty eighties.

casual obsever wrote:

Well... let's start with that huge Coe/blood doping thread.

Or look at how he reacted to Seppelt, and tried to stop this famous doping paper.

Or remember the free-for-all dirty eighties.

Was that the thread where a lot of people blamed the fact he got toxoplasmosis on blood doping?