Sub 18 keeps eluding me

Mileage? How many workouts a week? Type of workouts? Easy pace? With those answered I'm sure you'll get some good answers.

Training volume?

Similar boat for me. I'm a 3:10 marathon guy who is 36 yo and can't even break 18:30.

The 800m repeats are fine, but they need to progress to something longer.

Two workouts I like in the final 1-4 weeks before a peak race:

1. 3 x mile. The last mile in the most important. For a sub-18, the first two should be in the 5:45-5:55 range, but get that last one under 5:40. You're in better shape if you can go 5:55-5:52-5:36 than going 5:45-5:45-5:45. Rest between the reps should be anywhere from 3-6 minutes.

2. descending ladder something like: (1600, 1200, 1000, 800, 600, 400). Once again, the latter reps are most important. Rest starts off a little shorter and gets longer as the workout goes on. For a sub-18, good splits would be around:

1600 - 5:55

2 min rest

1200 - 4:20

3 min rest

1000 - 3:32

4min rest

800 - 2:50

5 min rest

600 - 2:04

6 min rest

400 - 1:20

Just general advice, try not to think of any workout as something that you need to hit a consistent pace right on the nose from start to finish. In a race, you need to be confident enough to know that if you are a little behind pace early on, you are strong enough to close faster and hit your goal. Likewise, you need to know you can surge faster than average race pace for a bit, and then slow back down to a steady effort.

Sounds like you are on target. Try mixing in some 1000s at 335 and miles at 545-550. I think you will do it if you run an even pace race with good competition.

I agree that some longer intervals (1K, Mile) would help. Add in 4x200 at the end to work on some speed and you may be able to finish faster in the last 800 meters or so of the race

I run 40 to 50 miles per week. 50+ if I'm focusing on the marathon. Easy pace is usually 8flat. Sometimes I'm into the 7s. Been a hot summer. Hard to get a good gauge on fitness.

Rocketman17 wrote:

I run 40 to 50 miles per week. 50+ if I'm focusing on the marathon. Easy pace is usually 8flat. Sometimes I'm into the 7s. Been a hot summer. Hard to get a good gauge on fitness.

That astonishes me. I'm in awe. It took 4 years and ramping up to 54 miles per week just to go sub-20 in the 5k. After 1 more year of 70 mpw, I only improved 30 seconds in the 5k.

I can't imagine doing only 50 mpw for marathon training.

I'm 32 years old, 31-inch waist, BMI of 22.

Be happy, man, be happy. You could be doing a lot worse on the talent spectrum.

supreme no-talent wrote:

Rocketman17 wrote:

I run 40 to 50 miles per week. 50+ if I'm focusing on the marathon. Easy pace is usually 8flat. Sometimes I'm into the 7s. Been a hot summer. Hard to get a good gauge on fitness.

That astonishes me. I'm in awe. It took 4 years and ramping up to 54 miles per week just to go sub-20 in the 5k. After 1 more year of 70 mpw, I only improved 30 seconds in the 5k.

I can't imagine doing only 50 mpw for marathon training.

I'm 32 years old, 31-inch waist, BMI of 22.

Be happy, man, be happy. You could be doing a lot worse on the talent spectrum.

This guy is taking internet bullying to a new level.

Stop with the false praise, troll. That kind of stuff is not welcome here.

Alert alert wrote:

This guy is taking internet bullying to a new level.

Stop with the false praise, troll. That kind of stuff is not welcome here.

Since when was praise = bullying?

I also resent the assertion that I'm trolling or being false. My 5k PR is 19:23, and it took 5 years and 70 mpw to get there, so with all that hard work, I'm very proud of it. Then, here comes a guy who is 10 years older but has a PR over 1 minute better -- I definitely think that's something to be proud of, knowing how much work it took me.

supreme no-talent wrote:

Rocketman17 wrote:

I run 40 to 50 miles per week. 50+ if I'm focusing on the marathon. Easy pace is usually 8flat. Sometimes I'm into the 7s. Been a hot summer. Hard to get a good gauge on fitness.

That astonishes me. I'm in awe. It took 4 years and ramping up to 54 miles per week just to go sub-20 in the 5k. After 1 more year of 70 mpw, I only improved 30 seconds in the 5k.

I can't imagine doing only 50 mpw for marathon training.

I'm 32 years old, 31-inch waist, BMI of 22.

Be happy, man, be happy. You could be doing a lot worse on the talent spectrum.

ever heard of junk mileage? you should take 2 recovery runs a week, not 7.

O guess everyone's diff man. I ran a 3:04 off jus under 60mpw

Well, you're all here.

I coached a 37 yo person and jumped from 20:00 to

George Ilie wrote:

Well, you're all here.

I coached a 37 yo person and jumped from 20:00 to

The website had a glitch and my comment was cut off. Let's try again.

Well, you're all here.

I coached a 37 yo person and jumped from 20:00 to

George Ilie wrote:

George Ilie wrote:

Well, you're all here.

I coached a 37 yo person and jumped from 20:00 to

The website had a glitch and my comment was cut off. Let's try again.

Well, you're all here.

I coached a 37 yo person and jumped from 20:00 to

Am I on Twitter?

The comments are always cut off.

This is stupid.

800s should not be the centerpiece of your running. They are too short for speed-endurance or race-pace training and too long for a speed session.

Short fast stuff --- 150 - 300m

Longer intervals --- 1200 - 2000m

Tempos --- 4 - 8 miles

Wind sprints 2-3 days a week or more

easy running and off days for recovery

mix and match during each training period

(weekly, 10 days, 14 days, your choice)

Once you can do longer intervals at a 5:40 pace, you'll be ready for a 17:30 5K.

But to get to that point you'll probably need to be able to do short fast stuff around 4:40 mile pace (but that's only for 150 - 300m at a time).

But I said probably, you might need to go a little faster or a little slower.

But you'll for sure need to do some faster stuff and longer stuff to have the confidence to run 17:30, 17 flat, or even 16:30.

Using a schedule like the above I easily ran 17:50 over 3 miles at age 31. Now at age 34 if I could get back on a regular training schedule I know I could at least get down to 16:30 and who knows how much lower....

George Ilie wrote:

I coached a 37 yo person and jumped from 20:00 to

I ran a 5k in

George Ilie wrote:

George Ilie wrote:

The website had a glitch and my comment was cut off. Let's try again.

Well, you're all here.

I coached a 37 yo person and jumped from 20:00 to

Am I on Twitter?

The comments are always cut off.

Bro, do even internet?

Solid piece of advice. I'd add he could do short hill sprints to improve running form in alternative to wind sprints (no more than 30/40m on a fairly steep hill) and even split those tempos if they are too taxing so to facilitate recovery and squeeze an extra workout in a short cycle...