Is Rupp only 1:25 better than Ward in the marathon?

Ithaca Commons wrote:

Jared Ward.

At no time went for the win in Rio, so who really cares.

He's a nice little marathon guy who at his pace was slower than Ron Tabb.

The Rio race temperature was 78 degrees, with 95 percent humidity.

Tabb's run was downhill in ideal conditions.

There is no comparison.

Ward placed 6th in the world, far better than Tabb ever did.

asu guy wrote:

luv2run wrote:

Bill Parcells said of head coaches: you are what your record says you are.

Well, Rupp's record says that he is a small amount of time better than Ward.

Marathon is a tricky critter.

This is pure weak sauce. Rupp ran for a medal Ward never did.

Even pace is the fastest race, Ward, but it won't get you a medal.

Rupp is so much fast then ward it is funny this thread has what 4 pages now.

By this logic had Rupp ran like Ward for his "fastest race" instead of just "for a medal" he would have been in contention to win, but alas he didn't instead he just went for a medal and thus had to settle for the bronze.

The reality is lun2run is right - you are what your record says you, Ward ran the race he thought would give him the best chance, as did Rupp and the results of two championship races speak for themselves. Rupp 1-2 minutes ahead of Ward.

asu guy wrote:

...

Rupp is so much fast then ward it is funny this thread has what 4 pages now.

Could you say that again? Perhaps you could say it in English this time.

yesssum wrote:

tactical race??

all in the last 10k??

i don't think you guys understand that Rupp was within seconds of silver and couldn't get it. He didn't run a tactical race, he was beat at the end. He looked exhausted those last few miles. I'm sure Rupp is more than 1:25 better than Ward, but in this particular race Ward probably did outstanding while Rupp just did well.

I would say Rupp did outstanding and Ward just did well. You know, because he beat him and got a bronze, so I think that's better.

luv2run wrote:

Bill Parcells said of head coaches: you are what your record says you are.

Well, Rupp's record says that he is a small amount of time better than Ward.

Marathon is a tricky critter.

Parcels also said one game is not a glossary of an entire season

Tell me at what point was Jared Ward dealing for the win?

At no point.

Jared Ward is the twin cities marathon.

Galen Rupp is a TWO time Olympic medalist.

Look closer my friend wrote:

Tell me at what point was Jared Ward dealing for the win?

At no point.

Jared Ward is the twin cities marathon.

Galen Rupp is a TWO time Olympic medalist.

Rupp is clearly superior as a runner to Ward. No dispute. However, those who say he is 4 or 5 minutes faster in a marathon are not very bright.

Ujay wrote:

Look closer my friend wrote:

Tell me at what point was Jared Ward dealing for the win?

At no point.

Jared Ward is the twin cities marathon.

Galen Rupp is a TWO time Olympic medalist.

Rupp is clearly superior as a runner to Ward. No dispute. However, those who say he is 4 or 5 minutes faster in a marathon are not very bright.

Rupp may very well be 4 to 5 minutes faster than Ward in a time trial situation on a fast course like Berlin. But we clearly don't have enough to say that as Rupp has only ran 2 championship races in less than ideal conditions. Ward has not run for time in ideal conditions any time recently and can also surely run faster than his current PR as well.

The Olympic marathon is all about place and those trying to extrapolate what guys are capable of running PR wise from a style of race where the top guys run together for almost 20 miles and then let the last 10K decide the race have no idea how this works. Rupp clearly has at least 2:06 potential. Maybe even sub 2:05. I doubt Ward will ever touch those times but clearly has the ability to go sub 2:10 in the right conditions.

fastest is bestest wrote:

By this logic had Rupp ran like Ward for his "fastest race" instead of just "for a medal" he would have been in contention to win, but alas he didn't instead he just went for a medal and thus had to settle for the bronze.

Obviously false. If Rupp had ran for his fastest race the top guys would have ran differently (e.g. first 30k faster, probably bad for Rupp). This is not true for Ward, hence it made sense for him to run for his fastest race.

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

Rupp may very well be 4 to 5 minutes faster than Ward in a time trial situation on a fast course like Berlin. But we clearly don't have enough to say that as Rupp has only ran 2 championship races in less than ideal conditions. Ward has not run for time in ideal conditions any time recently and can also surely run faster than his current PR as well.

The Olympic marathon is all about place and those trying to extrapolate what guys are capable of running PR wise from a style of race where the top guys run together for almost 20 miles and then let the last 10K decide the race have no idea how this works. Rupp clearly has at least 2:06 potential. Maybe even sub 2:05. I doubt Ward will ever touch those times but clearly has the ability to go sub 2:10 in the right conditions.

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

. . . Rupp clearly has at least 2:06 potential. Maybe even sub 2:05. I doubt Ward will ever touch those times but clearly has the ability to go sub 2:10 in the right conditions.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Donger wrote:

HardLoper wrote:

Tactical race dude. He put that whole 1:25 gap on him in the last 10k when the real racing started.

It may have been tactical but Rupp was done the last 5k in survival. That's with a tactical first 30k.

WR pace is 4:43. After a few miles at that pace Rupp was broke and fell back to 5 min miles unable to pick off an 8 second gap.

I'm not buying this tactical crap.

This makes sense....and I am not bashing Rupp. Rupp ran a very good race. To me, it would seem he is a solid contender, but how much better than Ward is he? The question is more difficult than it may appear.

Nobody has brought up the issue of training. Rupp did some crazy training. It would seem he put in a perfect marathon cycle. To me, he should have been able to grab the silver.

Also--was the training too intense? When it comes down to it, is it better to train more conservatively?

In the trials, Rupp beat Ward by 1:48.

So the 1:25 is pretty close.

outsiderunner wrote:

Nobody has brought up the issue of training. Rupp did some crazy training. It would seem he put in a perfect marathon cycle. To me, he should have been able to grab the silver.

Based on what you heard about his training you think he should have been able to run 12 seconds faster? Did Lilesa not put in a perfect marathon cycle? Such a bizarre way to try to rip on someone, complete with the "I'm not bashing" disclaimer to start.

Not trying to rip on Rupp at all. He was within eight seconds of the second place finisher, and I think he finished 11 seconds behind him. I watched the trails, and other races with Rupp, and received loads of commentary on Rupp's training and fitness. They described insane things, such as doing 23 miles at 4:50s with his HR not going above 150. That is flat-out incredible. They also talked about Rupp turning on the heat in his house and going for two hours on the treadmill. And, of course, they discussed the 145-mile weeks. This, combined with Rupp's obvious talent and his 10k ability (i.e. his ability to finish) makes me think he could have closed an eight-second gap. With silver so close, Rupp must have been running all-out (as another poster has already noted).

I guess those E. Africans are just flat-out better, no matter what others may do to try to compete. I was hoping Rupp would do and east african thing and catch that guy at the end. Great race for Rupp, but it seems the EAs are still a cut above. Great race for Ward, too. Glad we had something interesting to watch in terms of rooting on our American runners.

Donger wrote:

HardLoper wrote:

Tactical race dude. He put that whole 1:25 gap on him in the last 10k when the real racing started.

It may have been tactical but Rupp was done the last 5k in survival. That's with a tactical first 30k.

WR pace is 4:43. After a few miles at that pace Rupp was broke and fell back to 5 min miles unable to pick off an 8 second gap.

I'm not buying this tactical crap.

So were the first 30k tactical or no? lol...

HardLoper wrote:

So were the first 30k tactical or no? lol...

You would know the answer if you carefully watched the race.