Fact of the case: J Walker v M Centowitz

Anybody got some reliable splits for everybody in the race, I've heard that Centro did the last 400m in 50.6?

Walker was 52/53 in 76.

Da Silva did 51.3 in 2004, El G. did 51.6/7

"This makes no sense! Walker, a 1:44.92/3:32.4 person." Actually most of Walker's best times were over the mile, probably a mid-high 3:31 guy at his peak. Just being picky! Coe in 1980 was 52 I think. Someone needs to post the 1992 splits on here.

Sprinter by birth wrote:

1976 Olympic 1500 metres, John Walker and Eamonn Coghlan passed 1200 metres, 3:01.23. It was all out from there. Ivo van Damme was roughly a stride and a half back. Walker raced the last 300 metres, 37.94. 1500 metres time, 3:39.17. van Damme finished in 3:39.27. He raced the last 300 metres faster than Walker.

2016 Olympic 1500 metres, Centro passed 1200 metres about 3:12 flat. Centro raced the last 300 metres about 38 flat. No one, 2016 could match Centro. This makes no sense! Walker, a 1:44.92/3:32.4 person. van Damme, a 1:43.86/3:36.26 man.

This needs to be investigated. I don't mean analyzing which runner may or may not may have stepped on lane one curb. I do not mean analyzing for PEDs. I find it hard to believe that a field with sub-1:44 800 metres men; a field with sub-3:29 1500 metres men, men couldn't race sub-38, last 300 metres after passing 1200 metres, 3:12? Analyze bank accounts!

Walker's 37.94 last 300m was presumably preceded by ~ a 15 second 100m starting from 400m out (If it was 'all out from there' coming through 1200m in 3:01), or 52.94 last lap. That may be the difference you are looking for between the two races, Centro's last 400m was 50.6, which if averaged for the last lap is 37.95 for his last 300m. 3:12 1200m is slow for an Oly 1500 race, but they are still running fairly fast, and top speed is still limited plus effected by what one did preceding it, including how far out the seriously fast running started.

Centro started his kick from 700 out; he went through 800 in only 2:16.9. His last 700m was at 1:46.0 800m pace!

Sprinter by birth wrote:

1976 Olympic 1500 metres, John Walker and Eamonn Coghlan passed 1200 metres, 3:01.23. It was all out from there. Ivo van Damme was roughly a stride and a half back. Walker raced the last 300 metres, 37.94. 1500 metres time, 3:39.17. van Damme finished in 3:39.27. He raced the last 300 metres faster than Walker.

2016 Olympic 1500 metres, Centro passed 1200 metres about 3:12 flat. Centro raced the last 300 metres about 38 flat. No one, 2016 could match Centro. This makes no sense! Walker, a 1:44.92/3:32.4 person. van Damme, a 1:43.86/3:36.26 man.

This needs to be investigated. I don't mean analyzing which runner may or may not may have stepped on lane one curb. I do not mean analyzing for PEDs. I find it hard to believe that a field with sub-1:44 800 metres men; a field with sub-3:29 1500 metres men, men couldn't race sub-38, last 300 metres after passing 1200 metres, 3:12? Analyze bank accounts!

Is this a joke? What did John Walker run his penultimate lap in? What did Centro run his Penultimate lap in?

Uptown wrote:

Centro started his kick from 700 out; he went through 800 in only 2:16.9. His last 700m was at 1:46.0 800m pace!

A solomonesque finish.

Look above

Walker 700m @ 1:48.5, @ 1100m 2:46.7, @ 1200m 3.01.23

1500m - 3:39.18

If this helps. 52.5 last lap, though off a faster pace.

Uptown wrote:

Centro started his kick from 700 out; he went through 800 in only 2:16.9. His last 700m was at 1:46.0 800m pace!

OOOOO, last 700 at 1:46.0 pace!!!

In the 1987 WC, Abdi Bile ran the last 800 at 1:46.0 pace, and his overall time was 3:36. He could have started nearly 100m behind the Rio final, started his kick several seconds sooner, caught Centro with 700 to go and finished neck and neck.

Bile was known for his kick but never cracked 3:30. Several of today's milers would outkick him. None of them should have the slightest trouble going 700m faster than that off a 2:16 start.

OP is right - it just smells wrong.

Walker was just better than the 2016 field.

Please show where walker has a coach under investigation for doping

Sprinter by birth wrote:

Centro raced the last 300 metres about 38 flat. No one, 2016 could match Centro. This makes no sense!

False premise. Watch the 2016 video again. Willis definitely closes the gap on Centrowitz over the last 300m , and it looks like Makhloufi does too. I think Willis might have caught Centro if he'd been closer at 300m (i.e. if he hadn't nearly tripped at about 550m out and/or had so much traffic in front of him) and Makhloufi almost catches Centro despite having to go around Kiprop. The only mystery to me is Kiprop but maybe he just didn't have it.

None of that is to take anything away from Centro - most Olympic champions have some sort of luck (Walker included - his 'luck' was that none of his competitors thought they could beat him even though, on the day, Van Damme possibly could have).

Uptown wrote:

Centro started his kick from 700 out; he went through 800 in only 2:16.9. His last 700m was at 1:46.0 800m pace!

This. You guys are starting at 1200m but fail to realize that Centro's 800-1200m split was actually pretty decent. They were literally walking the first 800m - 2:16.9 (average freshmen in highschool split that in the mile).

Bad Wigins wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Centro started his kick from 700 out; he went through 800 in only 2:16.9. His last 700m was at 1:46.0 800m pace!

OOOOO, last 700 at 1:46.0 pace!!!

In the 1987 WC, Abdi Bile ran the last 800 at 1:46.0 pace, and his overall time was 3:36. He could have started nearly 100m behind the Rio final, started his kick several seconds sooner, caught Centro with 700 to go and finished neck and neck.

Bile was known for his kick but never cracked 3:30. Several of today's milers would outkick him. None of them should have the slightest trouble going 700m faster than that off a 2:16 start.

OP is right - it just smells wrong.

It sounds to me like one of two things is being implied by the "it just smells wrong" statement...

1. The 2016 final participants did not run all out in the final and allowed Centro to win even though they could have beat him.

2. Walker & Coughlan were doped to the gills.

Which is it? Because both of those scenarios "smells wrong" to me.

You clueless fool, Walker's drug test samples in the 1970s and 1980s were deemed so clean that they were used as a basis for drug testers deciphering who has exogenous substances in their samples. Can't speak for Coughlan though.

Walker was clean mate.