What's more impressive, Bolt winning 3rd Olympic gold in the 100 & 200, or him also getting the 400 WR?

Personally, I don't think he would have been able to get it. He has run a very good 300m, but from there his wheels start to fall off.

Bolt's range makes perfect sense.

9.58, best ever over 100m.

19.19, better over 200m than 100m, ran pretty much two WR 100m's back to back, into a headwind no less. Worth 19.06 if he had a max legal following wind. Best 200m runner of all time by far. Sub 19 is even possible for him.

Second best over 300m all time.

45+ 400m.

Terrible over 800m.

5 minute+ mile ;)

Wariner managed to still run 1:53, albeit years later when he has lost a lot of speed. Point is, some endurance is necessary for the 400m. Bolt simply can't do it all.

Lot's of top 100/200m guys could run 45. I reckon Bolt would top out at 44 low/mid. Very good, but not as good as his 300m.

Just my two pennies.

3 straight.

Hands down.

But I value medals and championships over records.

I think a sub-5 mile would be the most impressive thing Bolt could do at this point.

Metric Miler wrote:

Wariner managed to still run 1:53, albeit years later when he has lost a lot of speed. Point is, some endurance is necessary for the 400m. Bolt simply can't do it all.

I dont know what this adds (nothing most likely) but here's video of a 45.4 400 guy with a pretty big upper body who decided to try an 800 and ran 1:48

I think most of us would be more impressed with the 400 WR on top of the 1 and 2 than a third 100/200 double.

I know I would.

Historically, the threepeat would hold up better, though.

The best route would have been to get the 400 WR by 2014 but run the 100/200 this year.

Bolt was never going to threaten the 400m WR, he is not going to put in the work. He is and always has been a bit lazy, That was never MJ.

400m WR would be more impressive because I would be more impressed with that kind of range (100/200/400) than longevity. Both are pretty darned impressive, but 3 Olympic golds is probably more doable.

I question whether Bolt, or anyone else, could have the range to break both the modern 100m WR and the 400m WR. MJ's 100m PR is only 10.09, which is pedestrian by top 100m guy standards. And 45.28 (Bolt's 400 PR) is still a long way from MJ's 43.18. Whatever it is that gives someone the potential to be the 400m WR holder probably doesn't exist in someone with the potential to be the 100m WR holder and vice versa.

But didn't he ease up in the end of his 400m PR , once he knew he had it won? I thought Usain ran faster than 45 in training???

When will it end? wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

Wariner managed to still run 1:53, albeit years later when he has lost a lot of speed. Point is, some endurance is necessary for the 400m. Bolt simply can't do it all.

I dont know what this adds (nothing most likely) but here's video of a 45.4 400 guy with a pretty big upper body who decided to try an 800 and ran 1:48

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m4SbAmitZaE

Can't hold a candle to Mark Everett - 44.x, 1:43 - that guy was an insane telent

For me, it's definitely the 400 WR. First of all, owning the 100 WR and the 400 WR at the same time is incredible range, as good as you can get for a sprinter since no one is ever going to run WRs in both the 100 and 800.

I also just think of it in terms of what is harder for Bolt to accomplish. Obviously winning three straight Olympic titles in the 100 and 200 is very tough and requires staying healthy, but he's the greatest sprinter ever. If you said in 2012 that he would do the double again in Rio, it wouldn't have surprised me. If you said in 2012 that he would run 43:1x, I would have been surprised (but not entirely shocked).

To break the 400 WR, you don't just need health; you need to develop/hone an entirely new skill (endurance). To keep winning the 100/200, he just needs to prevent the skills he currently has from declining too much.

When will it end? wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

Wariner managed to still run 1:53, albeit years later when he has lost a lot of speed. Point is, some endurance is necessary for the 400m. Bolt simply can't do it all.

I dont know what this adds (nothing most likely) but here's video of a 45.4 400 guy with a pretty big upper body who decided to try an 800 and ran 1:48

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m4SbAmitZaE

Nice run.

You have to have some decent endurance to run the 400m, but the faster you are over 200m the less you need and the less you will have, of course.

One cannot win the marathon and the 100m. That filters down in a lesser extent to the other events.

The fact it is so difficult to win both the 400m and the 800m, possibly the toughest double there is in Athletics, shows that there is a tangible divide.

As you said, this adds nothing to the discussion at hand but it is interesting nonetheless. For the record I don't think MJ would have run a great 800m, maybe 1:53+ like Wariner. He was just too fast over the 200m.

400 obviously, but I agree with other commenters that he comes off as lazy. It's odd that he's never run a leg on the 4x400 either. He would easily get them a medal if not the gold outright. One thing people mention is that his PR is only 45.2, but isn't that from high school? I'm pretty sure he would have easily broke the 400 record if he would have turned his attention to that a couple years ago.

OopsIcrappedmypants wrote:

400 obviously, but I agree with other commenters that he comes off as lazy. It's odd that he's never run a leg on the 4x400 either. He would easily get them a medal if not the gold outright. One thing people mention is that his PR is only 45.2, but isn't that from high school? I'm pretty sure he would have easily broke the 400 record if he would have turned his attention to that a couple years ago.

I was waiting for this.

Yes he ran 45.3 in 2007. He also ran 19.75 that year.

Bolt is extremely fast. That speed holds through the 300m but as the metres add up he will struggle more and more. A great time for Bolt in the 400m is of course possible, like I said 44 low/mid. But there are many, many 44 low runners you would never hint at being able to run 43.19.

mutual exclusivity wrote:

Whatever it is that gives someone the potential to be the 400m WR holder probably doesn't exist in someone with the potential to be the 100m WR holder and vice versa.

Path of Least Resistance and Specificity.

Bolt's built more for the 100/200, so it is easier for him to train for the 100/200. He'd have to do a lot more work and be willing to endure the pain to develop his speed endurance for the 400.

On the flip side, for Michael Johnson, he could have gone sub 10 if he specifically trained for it. He had the turnover. He was built more for the 400 though, so it was easier for him to train for the 200/400 instead of the 100.

The potential is there for both of them. If they specifically trained for it, they'd been competitive for it. But... work smarter not harder applies here.

Metric Miler wrote:

The fact it is so difficult to win both the 400m and the 800m, possibly the toughest double there is in Athletics, shows that there is a tangible divide.

How is that a fact? How many have tried?

The old Records versus Championships debate. Like any good undying debate, everybody's got their opinion.

I like records. I'd be more impressed with 100, 200, and 400 WRs rather than winning 6 specific races. The WRs are an absolute measure. So many factors go into individual races.

Metric Miler wrote:

Bolt is extremely fast.

Astute observation! I now see why you are always so confident on here in your opinions on running!

You seem sure that Bolt would not have been able to set the 400m WR. And this is because he is "too fast" at 100 & 200. Of course I understand your logic, but remember, this is the dude is still only 0.2 off the fastest 400m ever for U18, and he soon became WR holder in the 100. I thought that type of physiology (as you seemed to suggest) was not possible? He clearly had brilliant 400m talent as a youth. Where did it go? Nowhere. Now of course he would need to transition a bit to 400m training, but likely not even that much. A few years ago he ran this 43.x split while WALKING the last 10m. Note, he doesn't really die, but lets up when it is clear he ain't gonna win. Imagine if he was catching that first guy and passing him in the last 10m instead? Surely you've seen this, correct? He is INSANELY far behind when he gets the baton, but yet easily makes up the deficit on LEGIT (remember, this is Jamaica, and the winning time is 3:00) anchor runners.

Bolt could have run very low 43 if he had spent a year with some focus on the 400 (but not dropping the 100/200, that training still worked for of course). Be sure of it. The above video is proof enough, and his 45.3 as a child is more proof.

vjjv wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

The fact it is so difficult to win both the 400m and the 800m, possibly the toughest double there is in Athletics, shows that there is a tangible divide.

How is that a fact? How many have tried?

Well, there's lots of 1/2 guys, one 2/4 guy and one 4/8 guy. More have tried 2/4 than 4/8, so isn't it arguable that it's harder?

Metric Miler wrote:

The fact it is so difficult to win both the 400m and the 800m, possibly the toughest double there is in Athletics, shows that there is a tangible divide.

The toughest double in athletics is the shotput/marathon.