Question about Lydiard rest periods

The "old problem" of Arthur's ideas are here too. The schedules were never meant to be "Hard and Fast".

They are a guide.

I have run many sessions with Bill Baillie (In the 80's).

When we did a session of 8 to 10 X 200, Yes, generally we jogged the same distance beween, but if the effort was "too Much" or things did not feel right we just jogged a little longer.

Bill did not put any emphasis a particular "time or distance limit".

One time we did a 1200m time trial, Just after the 800m mark

Bill tapped me on the shoulder (It was my turn to lead)and said "Shut it down, it does not feel right". I was glad as it did not feel right to me either.

We jogged and talked for the rest of the session and picked up that workout later in the week and it felt good.

Arthur has mentioned many times the session he did with Dick Taylor in the early 70's when Dick was running a session of 400's.

Someone came along and asked Arthur "How many is he doing ?" Arthur said "I don't know". The guy said "How fast is he running them ?" Arthur said "I don't know. But fast enough to give him the effect we want and slow enough so it does not get too Anaerobic". The guy said "When's he going to stop?" Arthur said "When he feels he is beginning to tire"

In other words at the point he feels he could maybe do a little more but there is no point in killing the body.

The whole idea is to find what suits the individual Athlete. Peter Snell talks of doing his long runs with Barry Magee because if he did them with Bill Baillie he would have struggled. Yet he would do other types of workouts with Bill.

I read an interview where he said that he liked the directions the kenyans and morrocans had been moveing with the use of intervals. Saying basically that longer intervals with shorter rest was the way to go. That said his equal rest thing was one of his loosest guidelines. As long as you are doing anaerobic work and covering 3 to 5 miles he figures you are doing all right.

Kim:

You are one of the best sources on Lydiardism around and we should be greatful. Thanks for the great insight.

Baillie also once told me that, if he would do repeats miles, he would probably jog less than a mile because "by the time you're done with a mile jog, you'd be sluggish!" Lorraine Moller often talks about "listening to your inner coach." It is true in a long run as well as repeats.

John Robinson, a lesser known Arthur's Boys, told me that, if you're a coach and if you're timing your runner do the repeats, you can usually tell that the time starts to slip even if he/she is apparently struggling to keep up the pace. "That's when you should stop them, not when the schedule says to stop (after so many numbers of repeats)."

Dick Brown, one of the premier middle disatnce coaches in the country, said of Richard Tayler story "one of the most beautiful lessons" he's ever encountered.

Oh, one more thing; Dr. Snell said of "cutting down the rest intervals" or shorter rest period (as if trying to get used to build-up of lactic acid) "that doesn't sound right." That, as for my understanding, is sort of the whole concept behind Gershler and Reindell's intervals training by doing more intervals, higher and harder and faster repeats. Upon came Lydiard and his runners and wiped them all away.

nj:

I'm curious; which interview? I don't know what exactly Kenyan runners are doing and I don't recall Arthur's comments on Kenyan training other than their base building training. But I recall him saying of Morrocans that they are taking "longer" rest period than Arthur's runners.

I think the whole argument goes back to what Kim S was saying; it's only a guide and listen to your own reaction and decide what to do. Some might do 200s, others 400. Some even prefer ladder, some rather do them on a train. As Lydiard always said; "AS LONG AS YOU COME OUT FROM THE TRAINING SESSION, KNOWING YOU'VE MADE YOURSELF TIRED WITH SPEED, YOU'VE ACHEIVED DESIRED PHYSIOLOGICAL REACTION." Numbers shouldn't mean too much.

Nobby/Kim a base question:

If you're coming of an extended layoff the best thing is to just head out the door (starting around 15-20 minutes comfortably) until you can cover 90 minutes to 2 hours routinely before considering any intense work, right?

Dead right mate !!!

Start nice and easy and gradually build it up. You will find as you get "fitter" you will run some of your courses at a quicker pace without any undue effort.

OK, Thanks.

Yeah, you bet ya! (Kim Kiwi style and me Minnesotan?)

You said it yourself a key word: "comfortably". If the Lydiard schedule calls for getting it up to 100 miles a week in a few weeks (which he did not and would have not, folks!), if it's not comfortable for you, if you feel undue stress and your body telling you to "stop!", don't do it.

You CAN throw some intense work (I'm assuming here that you are refering to some "killer workouts" like some intervals with very short rest, etc.), but your body will quickly tell you that you've made a mistake. If it doesn't, by all mean, why not?

You wear high-tech shoes with lots of supporter and protector and motion control and all, your feet are going to get weaker and weaker and can't even walk. You follow a certain schedule, any schedule, by numbers and numbers alone that's written down, you'll soon lose sense of "listening to your own body." Which one would you trust, someone who wrote some generic training schedule who doesn't know a thing about you or yourself?