Going long term for high school runners

Do not base your training off of Galen Rupp, Alberto Salazar, or what anyone else does for that matter. Different training works for different athletes, period. So don't be disappointed if you're following the ways of Galen Rupp and don't run a 13 min 5k as a senior.

There is no single secret, or magic bullet to becoming a successful athlete. Running is a lifestyle, and all the little things you do culminate into success. Eat a healthy, balanced diet, get 8 hrs of sleep a night, recovery is king, do not push your easy runs, build a very strong core, do the right workouts at the right times, etc. I could go on and on. If you do all the little things, stay consistent, build your mileage, and don't get hurt, you are headed towards success.

Of course having a qualified coach and concrete training program is extremely important. I'm from Michigan, and happen to know Grant Fisher personally. In high school he did a lot of what a lot of what other high schoolers do. Easy runs, tempo runs, long runs, hill workouts, form drills, two-a-days, strength training, all that good stuff. What makes Grant Fisher who he is is the fact that he had an outstanding coach, loads of talent, and treated running as a way of life. I'm fairly certain he usually only ran around 55 mpw in high school.

Time is on your side. Enjoy running, motivate one another on your team, and learn as much as you can. Don't be afraid to fail and be a little hard on yourself once in a while. It's how you improve. Best of luck.

I am definitely not trying to base my training off Rupp & Salazar. I specifically say I'm trying to be the best I can be not try to run 13 minutes by senior year. However thank you very much for the insight, that helps a lot.

Beyond high school wrote:

I am definitely not trying to base my training off Rupp & Salazar. I specifically say I'm trying to be the best I can be not try to run 13 minutes by senior year. However thank you very much for the insight, that helps a lot.

No problem. Just trying to say that it's good to have a coach who will individualize your training. I'm currently a collegiate runner who struggled in high school due to very poor coaching. Everyone on the team from 15-25 mins in the 5k would do the same workouts and mileage..which is why we weren't very good.

only ran around 55 mpw in high school.

only. yeah.

You could do worse than this.

http://www.runningwritings.com/2014/05/five-steps-to-long-term-success-in-high.html

Bump... I'll only do this once

The key lies in 3 words:

IMPROVE YOUR SPEED

And I mean 100-200 speed. The faster you are, the higher your speed reserve (ie the difference between your top speed and race speed - applies to races from 400 up). The more comfortable race pace is, the better your kick at the end. And if someone can develop aerobically to run at 70% of their top speed, then the higher the top speed is, the faster that 70% is.

You need a very good coach to help you with:

- running mechanics

- top speed development - includes short hills, plyos, sleds etc

- the right strength work - in the gym

All the top races are won by the fastest person. Especially at your age, you can make serious improvements in your top speed.

You should do this twice a week, and otherwise aerobic running. I wouldn't worry about lactic stuff too much, but learn how to do quality fartlek and interval sessions.

Not the way it works at all. This will work for an untrained person, because any training will do something, but focusing on speed will not make you a good distance runner. All kinds of teams are out there doing short intervals "working on their speed", and they suck, they suck early in the season, they suck at the end of the season, because a distance race is fundamentally different than a sprint. An even remotely trained athlete cannot raise his endurance by "Raising his speed". Notice how sprinters run maybe 20 miles a week, max, they're doing the kind of training needed to raise speed. This idea that you can raise speed then run at 70% of max speed after doing some distance training doesn't hold water. What will happen is you'll take a little bit off your 400, but your distance times will stay steady.

BTW training to raise speed won't even give you a good kick, because you have to run that kick while tired, something sprinters can't do, but that you can train to do through high end aerobic training. There is a place for short intervals, but they shouldn't be the focus of xc training.

Just run mileage right? The answer to everything.

What I said is very applicable to races up to 1500 at least. Less so the longer you go, but I am not talking marathons here.

Why was Kenny Bekele the best? Because of his last 400-500. That comes from mileage does it?

I think a kid that age can afford to lose one or two aerobic sessions a week to work on their outright speed, and will benefit in the long run. You've misread what I wrote. Where did I say ONLY do sprint work? Where did I say it is the main focus? I said do it once or twice a week at his age. This is a longer term plan. Obviously as an adult the guy will need to do high end aerobic work. But do it with more speed and you'll go faster. It's not rocket science.

You've just fundamentally misrepresented what I said.

What good is a kick if you are not there at the end of the race. You need to have the endurance to be there first, then you kick, not the other way around.

Thanks to everyone who has been responding. I like where some of these responses are going. However right now I'm not worried about my kick as much, because like someone already said, your kick is useless if your not in the front at the end of a race. All I'm focused on right now is improving my times as a whole, to be my best long term.

My 2 cents: as far as mileage goes, don't overdo it in HS, but do as much as you can (as paradoxical as that sounds). I didn't run before HS or do XC freshman year. My years went something like this (mileage, 8/16/32/5kXC):

FR 20mpw? Did MD training, 2:10

SO 25-35mpw, maxed out at 40, 4:37, 9:44, 17:19

JR 35-45mpw, maxed out at 50, 4:20, 9:32, 16:37

SR 45-55mpw, maxed out at 60, 4:19, 9:14, 15:54

Notice a pattern? Steady increase in volume and definitely increased the pace. Do not be afraid to take it easy, I always felt like if I ran slower than 7 minutes/mile I wasn't working hard enough. Now that I'm in college I have learned to restrain myself.

FR 65-75mpw, maxed out at 80

Ran more mileage this year because body was ready for it and I moved up to 5000m and 10000m. In the next few years I'll get beyond 100mpw, which is possible because of years of base-building. Remember to stretch, do some core, and eat well (quantity AND quality of food!).

Thanks a lot, that is also very helpful! My only other question would be what are good workouts to do (ex: tempos, hills, track, etc...) that are good to do now but aren't overdoing it. Like mile repeats at 5k pace or 1k repeats or anything. Any response to that anyone? Also what workouts should be avoided?

1) If you plan to be a DISTANCE runner, meaning your best races will be 3000 or 3200 in track and then whatever the CC distance is in your state, then working on 100-200 speed now is not part of the plan.

2) TYPICAL success for a 3200/5000 runner comes in the form of more miles, but as was said by someone else, all runners are different and all respond to training in different ways and can handle differing amounts of mileage. I know a guy who was running 30 MPW as a senior and ran 15:04 and 9:03. He couldn't handle much more than that.

You just have to figure out what works best for you.

Interesting example, thanks for the input

Flagpole wrote:

1) If you plan to be a DISTANCE runner, meaning your best races will be 3000 or 3200 in track and then whatever the CC distance is in your state, then working on 100-200 speed now is not part of the plan.

2) TYPICAL success for a 3200/5000 runner comes in the form of more miles, but as was said by someone else, all runners are different and all respond to training in different ways and can handle differing amounts of mileage. I know a guy who was running 30 MPW as a senior and ran 15:04 and 9:03. He couldn't handle much more than that.

You just have to figure out what works best for you.

I know you have a lot of knowledge, but there are highly regarded coaches who view base or foundational training for young distance runners as needing to include speed development (hill sprints, 40m sprints, etc). So I disagree that speed development should not be part of the plan. Examples of books that explain this are by Mick Grant and Steve Magness.

I don't mean to dismiss it entirely, but base work for high school distance runners is the most important thing (mostly distance with a few tempo runs in there). Hill workouts and speed sessions (no more than twice a week, and not 100s and 200s) are appropriate in season. I would also suggest that 100-200 speed isn't important (which is what I was referring to) other than to work on form at a higher speed.

Who the hell is Mick Grant? why would I care what he wrote or thinks?

clueless in seattle... wrote:

What good is a kick if you are not there at the end of the race. You need to have the endurance to be there first, then you kick, not the other way around.

What good is being there at the end if you have no kick?

You need to work on both. But long term, the forgotten part is speed.