Assume they both have access to a 2015 level of technology and training/nutritional knowledge. How would a 1v1 race (plus a rabbit) between these two pan out? Would 1981 Seb Coe or 1967 Jim Ryun take the cake?
Assume they both have access to a 2015 level of technology and training/nutritional knowledge. How would a 1v1 race (plus a rabbit) between these two pan out? Would 1981 Seb Coe or 1967 Jim Ryun take the cake?
I say Ryun edges out wrote:
Assume they both have access to a 2015 level of technology and training/nutritional knowledge. How would a 1v1 race (plus a rabbit) between these two pan out? Would 1981 Seb Coe or 1967 Jim Ryun take the cake?
800 - Coe easily
1500 - Coe less easily
who has the fastest time?
There's your answer.
Anything else is just worthless speculation.
I say Ryun edges out wrote:
Assume they both have access to a 2015 level of technology and training/nutritional knowledge.
Technology and training/nutritional knowledge??? This isn't some electronics show. Running isn't that complicated and nothing has changed that much. We have only had 1 highschooler run faster than Ryun did. Our other pro times are not much better.
mlcollll wrote:
The whole topic is just worthless speculation.
Anyone pointing to fastest time as some sort of answer is a complete ignoramus.
Fixed that up for you.
idjdj wrote:
I say Ryun edges out wrote:Assume they both have access to a 2015 level of technology and training/nutritional knowledge.
Technology and training/nutritional knowledge??? This isn't some electronics show. Running isn't that complicated and nothing has changed that much. We have only had 1 highschooler run faster than Ryun did. Our other pro times are not much better.
Maybe Ryun was something of an outlier.
I dunno. Just maybe.
Coe would destroy him
Ryun
Maybe Mouse wrote:
Maybe Ryun was something of an outlier.
I dunno. Just maybe.
You should reread what I wrote.
Coe won the olympic 1500 twice, against far stronger fields than Ryun ever faced. Ryun raced in three olympics and only won one silver, against far inferior line ups. Ryun was certainly a very good athlete, but Coe was on a completely different level
idjdj wrote:
I say Ryun edges out wrote:Assume they both have access to a 2015 level of technology and training/nutritional knowledge.
Technology and training/nutritional knowledge??? This isn't some electronics show. Running isn't that complicated and nothing has changed that much. We have only had 1 highschooler run faster than Ryun did. Our other pro times are not much better.
Well... Today, everybody has access to all-weather tracks and ultra-light track spikes. Thanks to medical investigation, it is now known that certain types of strength training are conducive to faster times. We have new methods of injury prevention and healing. Etc. etc.
idjdj wrote:
Maybe Mouse wrote:Maybe Ryun was something of an outlier.
I dunno. Just maybe.
You should reread what I wrote.
You should rethink the implications of what you wrote vis-a-vis Jim Ryun.
I don't really like hypothetical matchups from different eras because going on times it always favors the more recent athlete. That said, if Ryun really did run sub-50 for the last lap against West Germany in 1967, then i vote Ryun.
mlcollll wrote:
who has the fastest time?
There's your answer.
Anything else is just worthless speculation.
No, that isn't your answer. And speculation is not worthless when the effects of various factors are quite clear, for example, dirt track vs synthetic track, rabbits vs no rabbits, even pace vs negative split, etc.
idjdj wrote:
I say Ryun edges out wrote:Assume they both have access to a 2015 level of technology and training/nutritional knowledge.
Technology and training/nutritional knowledge??? This isn't some electronics show. Running isn't that complicated and nothing has changed that much. We have only had 1 highschooler run faster than Ryun did. Our other pro times are not much better.
You are completely wrong on this. If you look at the kind of beastly training his coach inflicted on him (30x440) regularly it's a wonder he was able to survive to run the times he did. As it was he peaked at 20. If you put Coe on the same training Ryun did he would have broken down and never run close to times he ran. If Ryun were running today, his training would be much more sane and advanced than it was then. Training was really primitive back in the '60s.
Ryun
Seriously??? wrote:
Coe won the olympic 1500 twice, against far stronger fields than Ryun ever faced. Ryun raced in three olympics and only won one silver, against far inferior line ups. Ryun was certainly a very good athlete, but Coe was on a completely different level
First, Ryun was 17 in his first Olympics. Coe was watching the Olympics on TV at that age. The fact that Ryun competed in 3 Olympics compared to 2 with Coe is a point in Ryun's favor.
Second, please give me a list of athletes Coe faced at the Olympics who were capable of running a 3:34.9 1500 at 7400 feet elevation with two 10ks, three 5ks and two 1500s already in their legs.
Third, in Ryun's third Olympics he was tripped and wasn't advanced. He did run the 3rd fastest mile in history prior to the Games, behind only his 2 world records.
What if Coe's injuries occurred in 1980 & 1984 instead of 1983 & 1985? What if Ryun didn't incur a hamstring injury and catch mono in 1968 and wasn't tripped in 1972? Sometimes things happen outside an athlete's control that ultimately affect how we view their career.
If it's in an Olympic final, Coe.
If it's a meaningless dual meet in shitty conditions, Ryun.
Reality Bytes wrote:
If it's in an Olympic final, Coe.
If it's a meaningless dual meet in shitty conditions, Ryun.
Could you list which meets were meaningful in the 1960s? Thanks.
I say Ryun edges out wrote:
idjdj wrote:Technology and training/nutritional knowledge??? This isn't some electronics show. Running isn't that complicated and nothing has changed that much. We have only had 1 highschooler run faster than Ryun did. Our other pro times are not much better.
Well... Today, everybody has access to all-weather tracks and ultra-light track spikes. Thanks to medical investigation, it is now known that certain types of strength training are conducive to faster times. We have new methods of injury prevention and healing. Etc. etc.
No, "etc etc" is meaningless. What exactly are you suggesting because the things you just listed are irrelevant.
All weather tracks do not affect training. Spikes weight do not affect performance on any significant level relevant to what we are talking about.
What medical investigation for strength training for running faster are you talking about? Many runners do not do anything significantly different than runners did years ago - body weight exercises, some barbell stuff, some dumbbell stuff.
You may have something with injury treatments but that isn't training.