Tin man needs to cool it

Fine line between pressure and confidence. How fast is the high school milers you are coaching?

It's not cool to state these kinds of goals publicly, and it's especially not good to make bold predictions of times.

totally agree wrote:

It's not cool to state these kinds of goals publicly, and it's especially not good to make bold predictions of times.

Why not? You either get it or you don't. Would you rather have him tell you they were shooting for a 3:55.5? After he has already accomplished a 3:58 indoors, what else WOULD he be shooting for?

it's called goal setting wrote:

totally agree wrote:

It's not cool to state these kinds of goals publicly, and it's especially not good to make bold predictions of times.

Why not? You either get it or you don't. Would you rather have him tell you they were shooting for a 3:55.5? After he has already accomplished a 3:58 indoors, what else WOULD he be shooting for?

You set a goal with the athlete. You don't announce it to the world. Especially not in this situation. You especially don't announce all the splits, who he's pacing with, that he could be well below a record that no one has come close to touching, blah, blah, blah.

Do you think it was wise to announce to Ben Blankenship and the world that after all their analyzing that Ben was the closest fit for Drew to run with? Oh yeah, the same Ben Blankenship that was nipped by a hundredth of a second at last year's USA's for going to World's. The same Ben Blankenship that ran 3rd at our USA indoor meet in March. The same Ben Blankenship that is one of America's top 3 or 4 miler's.

Hunter and Blankenship are in two totally different stratospheres on the National mile scene.

You think Ben was humbled by that? Don't think so. He felt totally dis- respected. Tin man was way out of line.

Miler's?

Tin Man needs to cool it wrote:

You think Ben was humbled by that? Don't think so. He felt totally dis- respected. Tin man was way out of line.

When did Ben say he felt disrespected, and why would that make him feel disrespected?

odok wrote:

Tin Man needs to cool it wrote:

You think Ben was humbled by that? Don't think so. He felt totally dis- respected. Tin man was way out of line.

When did Ben say he felt disrespected, and why would that make him feel disrespected?

He said it in the post you are responding to. That's the hairy unwashed dude himself.

It would make him feel disrespected because he probably feels he's at a little higher level than some high school punk.

Remember what Jennings said about Webb?

Tin Man needs to cool it wrote:

You set a goal with the athlete. You don't announce it to the world.

The world isn't watching Drew Hunter, only a tiny tiny percentage have even heard of him. So how can any publicity be bad at this very early stage in his international career?

he didn't have it, but 1st 440y in 61.7 isn't going to do it and he still ran 3:58. Maybe he'll get another chance without terrible pacing and run 3:55. He still ran faster than Slagowski, for whom pacing opportunities were surely better with Grice running 3:52 and I would assume without a complete failure of pacing. Hunter was no doubt giving due deference to the much better credentialed athletes in staying behind them at 440, but he would have been better served with a 58/59 opening two laps.

He didn't come through 440yd in 61.7.

He came through 409m in 61. That's 59-60 low through 400m. Hardly improper pacing. Maybe not spot on but certainly not crazy slow.

You need to cool it -- soak your head in a bucket of ice water.

Both Tinman and Hunter had a very grounded approach to the Pre Classic, and every other race he's competed in. Hunter is the 2nd most prolific high school miler in history behind Ryun. He had every reason to be focused on Webb's record.

I'm not going very far out on a limb to say this; Hunter's parents, nor anyone else, will ever be coming to you for advice in the next century.

The question is, will this Tin Man fella double down while doing some damage control like he did after the FLN underperformance? Maybe an 8:20 2-mile prediction?

You mean the time predictions Tinman made for indoors that were proved correct within a few months? It's possible the coach knows the athlete better than you do.

jjjjjjj wrote:

he didn't have it, but 1st 440y in 61.7 isn't going to do it and he still ran 3:58. Maybe he'll get another chance without terrible pacing and run 3:55. He still ran faster than Slagowski, for whom pacing opportunities were surely better with Grice running 3:52 and I would assume without a complete failure of pacing. Hunter was no doubt giving due deference to the much better credentialed athletes in staying behind them at 440, but he would have been better served with a 58/59 opening two laps.

I got him in 59.8 for 400m. He was right with Jager with 500 m to go but was 4 sec back at the end. He's going to be a great, but don't blame the pacers. He's just not quite there yet.

malmo wrote:

You need to cool it -- soak your head in a bucket of ice water.

Both Tinman and Hunter had a very grounded approach to the Pre Classic, and every other race he's competed in. Hunter is the 2nd most prolific high school miler in history behind Ryun. He had every reason to be focused on Webb's record.

I'm not going very far out on a limb to say this; Hunter's parents, nor anyone else, will ever be coming to you for advice in the next century.

Hey. Before you get all huffy BRO, don't you think you need to break 3:57 or 3:58 before you announce to the entire universe you're going to break 3:53!!

Use a little common sense before you go into attack mode.

As a spectator the race was a let down. We were told that we'd see something special, we didnt. Malmo, there was undue pressure and or expectations placed on the young man. Razcko told people that Webb was ready to do something special, that you should come to the armory and he delivered. We were ready for Webb to deliver at Pre and he did. Imagine if Razcko stated he's ready to go 3:51. Was Hunter ecstatic after his performance? If not its because undue expectations were placed on him. I too wish Tinman- i have great respect for him- would not have given a prediction

but... wrote:

Scarecrowdude wrote:

The question is, will this Tin Man fella double down while doing some damage control like he did after the FLN underperformance? Maybe an 8:20 2-mile prediction?

You mean the time predictions Tinman made for indoors that were proved correct within a few months? It's possible the coach knows the athlete better than you do.

Oh, you think so?

First the mile: there was the incorrect information generated by [Tin Man] that Drew did a mile repeat workout faster than German Fernandez as a freshman at OSU (which was actually done on the OSU cross country course, and was 6 - not 3 - repeats). So he implied he could run what GF could soon. Well, German opened that indoor season with a 3:56.5, destroying one of the favorites (Ulrey) coming into that season. Then a month later he ran 3:55.02...by himself (won by 10+ seconds)...in February. Ended up winning the 1500m outdoors in a wire-to-wire 3:39.0, a 13:25 5K, and finishing 11th at World CC despite being in a boot for a few weeks leading up to the race.

2 mile: 8:34 "right now" (at FLN). He ran 8:00 for 3K a 6-7 weeks later. Great opener, no doubt. That's about an 8:39 2 mile effort. Again, absolutely incredible, but NOT meeting the prediction by his coach. And keep in mind, he's only been in IDEAL conditions for every one of the races. He hasn't had to do ANY of the work at ANY time of these races.

Nobody is in doubt that Drew is unbelievable. Nothing but a thousand"Hell yeah's" for Drew Hunter. I too, though, have a problem with his coach's brazen air when it comes to interview's.

Just not cool. Puts way too much pressure on the kid. Puts Hunter in the crap position where he thinks his high school 3:58 effort is not worthy. Do you know how bizarre that is ! Hunter and everyone else should be thrilled with his outdoor PR and with becoming a 3- TIME HIGH SCHOOL SUB FOUR MINUTE MILER!!!! His coach's egomaniac predictions took all that away.

I agree 100% with you, and was gonna start a similar thread (started it in my head in fact. ;) ).Saying Hunter is in 8:21 shape for 2-mile is an absurd statement, when you consider that out of all the HS greats that have run, only ONE has been under 8:30 (and barely), and only a few under 8:40. 8:21, what's that, 7:43 3k ?? C'mon. And even if you really believe he could run that, yeah, what exactly is the point of announcing that to the world? None that I see. Tinman clearly likes the attention he is getting. Maybe he deserves a little bit of it, but Hunter was a huge stud/talent/superstar before he ever met Tinman, and will be so in the future after he parts ways with Tinman (unless Hunter is a head-case like Webb was, and goes back to Tinman someday.)And all this talk of Tinman's lofty/ambitious goals of saving the sport and making Americans great at distance running and competing equally with the Africans someday.......get over it. Just coach the kid(s) under you, do your best, and stop talking so much.