800m Summer Training

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What kind of mileage have you hit before? Regardless of that, try to run as many days of the week as you can. I'd say minimum 6 days. Shoot for 7, even if one or two of your runs is 2-3 miles. Your 800 and mile seem pretty close to equal, but I think your 800 is a little better, so you probably are lacking endurance.

The fun but difficult aspect of the 800 is that you need to be able to sprint and be able to crank out a pretty good 1600 or even 3200 depending on the kind of runner you are.

Some little things you could do are run more miles. Don't overdo it. I can give more info on that if I had more information.

Also, do strides on most days. 60-100m. 4-8 times. start slow and finish the strides moving pretty fast. Also, try doing some short FAST hill sprints. find a semi steep to steep hill and after you're nice and warmed up, run up the hill for about 8 seconds as hast as possible with focus on driving downward and getting up the hill with good form. This will help build strength and speed without tearing you down too much.

I will need more info on your previous training and such to give more info.

At the start of the track season I usually ran about 25-30miles a week but towards the end of the season we cut that down to 15-20miles a week and worked more on speed. I have never ran more than 30 miles a week before. I have never really trained much in the summer or done xc in the fall before so i have never ran that high of mileage ever.

Try to run consistent 30-40 mpw. That would help a lot as a start.

Are there any certain workoust i should do or should i just go on a lot of mid/long runs? Also would it be helpful for me to join xc to help my 800 time

For 800m the summer is all about 3 things-

Top end speed: plyometrics, short hill sprints with big recoveries, weight training, drills, strides etc. These should never be hard or very anaerobic, save that for later in the year.

Improving aerobic endurance: mileage. Run the highest you can without injuring yourself or compromising on other aspects of training. You need one long run a week which you should aim to build up to about 10 miles.

Increasing lactate threshold: every week do one 5k pace interval session (eg. 6x1k, 8x800) and atleast one tempo run (3-6 miles run just under the pace where lactic starts to build up). Note the better your aerobic endurance is the more you will be able to increase your lactate threshold

All this will build a good base for the typical speed endurance, race pace stuff you will do later in the year.

TrackRunner28 wrote:

Are there any certain workoust i should do or should i just go on a lot of mid/long runs? Also would it be helpful for me to join xc to help my 800 time

Joining the xc team in the summer would beneficial, so long as you do the top end speed work as well

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Make a base wrote:

For 800m the summer is all about 3 things-

Top end speed: plyometrics, short hill sprints with big recoveries, weight training, drills, strides etc. These should never be hard or very anaerobic, save that for later in the year.

Improving aerobic endurance: mileage. Run the highest you can without injuring yourself or compromising on other aspects of training. You need one long run a week which you should aim to build up to about 10 miles.

Increasing lactate threshold: every week do one 5k pace interval session (eg. 6x1k, 8x800) and atleast one tempo run (3-6 miles run just under the pace where lactic starts to build up). Note the better your aerobic endurance is the more you will be able to increase your lactate threshold

All this will build a good base for the typical speed endurance, race pace stuff you will do later in the year.

This is good advice. I couldn't believe that the first post was based on mileage. The guy runs a 61 400 and wants to get under 2.05, and you talk about mileage? Doesn't matter what mileage you run, you won't be running 2.05 with a 61 second 400 PR.

I would add that as part of speed development - sleds and the right gym work. Work the CNS hard, twice a week.

One other thing is I would suggest diagonals. These should be at close to 800 pace. Stride the diagonal of a football field, turn left, jog the sideline, stride the diagonal when you hit the next corner, jog the baseline etc. After 4 you end up at the same start point. You should do at least 16 to start off with, and try to build it up to 25-30. This is excellent for getting your mind and body used to running at the fast, relaxed 800 pace, but because the reps are shorter, doesn't kill you with lactic.

I am not so sure about the long run though. I guess you could do one for a month or two, but after that I would replace it with a 40 min progressive run, and then move on to cruise intervals (5-8 x 1km reps at 8km pace with 90 sec recoveries or similar).

I also think in base some tougher aerobic sessions are worthwhile, like fartlek or vVo2max. 10-15 x 1 min hard 1 min easy, hard at 2km pace and easy at 60% of that pace. This is also a classic treadmill workout if it's too cold or wet. You can also build it to 6-7 x 2 min hard 2 min easy at the same pace.

Karma Police wrote:

I am not so sure about the long run though. I guess you could do one for a month or two, but after that I would replace it with a 40 min progressive run, and then move on to cruise intervals (5-8 x 1km reps at 8km pace with 90 sec recoveries or similar).

The long run for 800m is certainly debatable, but I think it's the best way of replicating the feeling you get at the end of an 800 where you are trying to hold your form while fatigued. In the race season its also an easy way to maintain your aerobic endurance, which can easily become neglected at that point.

I've never tried diagonals before but they sound very useful. I think kenyans do a lot of diagonals

Make a base wrote:

Karma Police wrote:

I am not so sure about the long run though. I guess you could do one for a month or two, but after that I would replace it with a 40 min progressive run, and then move on to cruise intervals (5-8 x 1km reps at 8km pace with 90 sec recoveries or similar).

The long run for 800m is certainly debatable, but I think it's the best way of replicating the feeling you get at the end of an 800 where you are trying to hold your form while fatigued. In the race season its also an easy way to maintain your aerobic endurance, which can easily become neglected at that point.

I've never tried diagonals before but they sound very useful. I think kenyans do a lot of diagonals

Yeah the Kenyans supposedly do them, and it helps them refine their form. It's a good way of doing some speed and lactic work in winter without trashing the system with tough anaerobic workouts like 300s and 400s. With the short recovery and volume, it also has a good aerobic benefit. I'd do them once a week.

I am in the camp where the 800 is not 75% aerobic. I think speed training for 800 runners is neglected. I am also not convinced about the long run - lactic threshold work and progressive runs (getting faster for 40 mins, so the end is like a tempo) can probably give you most of the aerobic benefit you need to run for 2 minutes. Well - IMO. I certainly don't know 100% either.

I don't think it's wise to tell someone to neglect mileage. In my post I also emphasized things like fast strides and fast hill sprints. It is not difficult to train both sides of the 800. Speaking from personal experience, I went from 2:03 to 1:52 in one year. And I was training pretty hard the years before the 2:03, also. So its not like I just got up and run a 2:03 then started training and ran 1:52. Quite the opposite.

So what did you change to go from 2:03 to 1:52? Add mileage, add speedwork? Can you clarify?

If you want all the details then look at this thread. http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6511501&page=7But yes, I added mileage, did a lot more tempos, lifted heavy consistently. DId fast strides often. Hill Sprints. Trained for the mile all indoor then converted to the 800 for outdoor.

Can you tell us more? wrote:

So what did you change to go from 2:03 to 1:52? Add mileage, add speedwork? Can you clarify?

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

I don't think it's wise to tell someone to neglect mileage. In my post I also emphasized things like fast strides and fast hill sprints. It is not difficult to train both sides of the 800. Speaking from personal experience, I went from 2:03 to 1:52 in one year. And I was training pretty hard the years before the 2:03, also. So its not like I just got up and run a 2:03 then started training and ran 1:52. Quite the opposite.

I coached a 14 1/2yo to 2.01 on 10 miles a week. Hence why I find speed is neglected.

I am not a fan of counting miles. IMHO, you do the work that needs to be done, and the mileage is whatever that adds up to. I think too many people work the other way round - aim for x miles per week, and adjust your schedule in order to get there.

I agree that counting miles gets a little out of hand. I wasn't very talented in high school. Managed a 56 400m and barely sub 5 in the 1600m and I was doing probably 20-30 miles a week. I noticed a lot of improvements every off season when I ran more and more. Then I finally focused on tempos and doubling and my 8k XC times dropped drastically. I'd also do my hill sprints and finish some workouts with a couple hard 200's. Then as I got towards track season I'd drop my mileage and do more and more speed. You can always drop mileage and do more speed but its hard to pick up mileage to get more endurance when you're already in the season. That's why I error on the side of a little more mileage while keeping in touch with speed.

I agree though that 61 seconds for 400m is too slow. But the athlete seems young/relatively new and could probably see major improvements but touching both areas of endurance and top speed/power.

Hi, I find your comments very helpful. I'm in a similar position you were once in with a PR in the 800m of 2:04, 54 in the 400m and 4:31 in the 1500m. I'm about to enter my first proper offseason and I was wondering if you could detail what a week of training should look like. This is my plan so far.

Monday: Easy run

Tuesday: Workout 5km pace + Weights

Wednesday: Easy run + Strides

Thursday: Hill Sprints or speed work on the track + Weights

Friday: Easy run + Strides

Saturday: Long Run ~ 1hour

Sunday: Rest or 2-3 miles easy