I've noticed in recent months that Tinman's popularity on Letsrun is at an all-time high and he's being heralded as a brilliant coaching mind. This is due in large part to Hunter's recent success.
On the other hand, Webb, who accomplished far more in high school than Hunter (up to this point), was coached by Scott Raczko and was generally not respected in the running community.
Why does this image disparity between the two coaches exist?
Cook the books wrote:
On the other hand, Webb, who accomplished far more in high school than Hunter (up to this point)
Please explain what more Webb had accomplished at this point.
Maybe the real secret is to be coached by Drew Hunter's mom when you are a Freshman
mink wrote:
Cook the books wrote:On the other hand, Webb, who accomplished far more in high school than Hunter (up to this point)
Please explain what more Webb had accomplished at this point.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm saying that throughout Webb's career, even when he broke the high school mile record, set the AR in the mile, etc. Raczko was almost universally disliked as a coach.
This begs the question then- is it better to be coached by Drew's mom as a freshmen (Webb) or not (Drew)?
The real question is who is the best coach in Boise, Idaho?
They both were coached by Drew's mom as a freshman. And please look up what "begs the question" means.
mink wrote:
This begs the question then- is it better to be coached by Drew's mom as a freshmen (Webb) or not (Drew)?
Cook the books wrote:
I've noticed in recent months that Tinman's popularity on Letsrun is at an all-time high and he's being heralded as a brilliant coaching mind. This is due in large part to Hunter's recent success.
On the other hand, Webb, who accomplished far more in high school than Hunter (up to this point), was coached by Scott Raczko and was generally not respected in the running community.
Why does this image disparity between the two coaches exist?
I think more people feared the idea of someone breaking Ryun's record when Webb was running vs now. People LOVED that record and LOVED Ryun. So, anything that assaulted him / his record was hated by many.
Whereas now that Webb has done the damage to Ryun's record(s), Hunter is seen as a new hope. People aren't so beholden to Ryun - or the record - anymore and are more OK with it being broken.
Just one guy's thought.
I believe the disparity is due to the differences in training style. Raczo reportedly had Webb running extremely hard workouts. Tinman says that he is using a more tempered, mileage and endurance focused approach. The Letsrun faithful (and founders) tend to favor high mileage and controlled workouts as the ideal training formula. Since Tinman seems to fit the Letsrun training philosophy better, he is more respected.
Not to mention that if you look at the training threads in the stickied thread at the top of the page, Tinman's posts are all over the place. He was one of the main contributors back in the early 2000s when training discussions were more serious around here.
So basically, everyone that grew up learning about training from those old threads has basically been drinking the Tinman cool-aid for many years. Easy to see why people think he has been doing a good job with Hunter.
Cook the books wrote:
Webb, who accomplished far more in high school than Hunter (up to this point), was coached by Scott Raczko and [sic] was generally not respected in the running community.
I think you mean "Scott Raczko, who was . . . ."
Tinman was a very active but fairly anonymous member of the letsrun community from way back. He didn't take a conventional or easy path into scholastic coaching. He paid his dues. I think his views about training are similar to those of many who have weighed in on this site over the years. It's good to see him get some credit for his approach.
I'm not aware of any connections that Raczko has had to letsrun. His training methods, which seemed to work very well for Webb for a while, didn't seem to get much traction in the broader running community. That somewhat quirky and individualized approach in the career of a single stellar athlete didn't seem to hurt Peter Coe's reputation too much, but his son's ascendency (and his coaching relationship) went a bit more smoothly than Webb's did.
I gather that Raczko is still coaching, and it doesn't take a lot of highly successful athletes for a coach to get some major cred, so maybe his star will rise again.
I think its difficult to compare the two. For one thing, webb was clearly a miler. For another, these athletes are also of different talent levels. Perhaps if Drew doesn't (1) make the trials (2) run 3.55 or better (3) run 13.40 or better (4) run 8.30 or better or some other equivalent, I might be willing to give the nod to razcko. However, I otherwise find it difficult to say that one is necessarily better. If Hunter runs close that record this weekend, I might be willing to lean towards Tinman. Furthermore, Razcko has coached other athletes and I don;t feel he was as successful. Just coming to mind, magness was stuck around 3.43 for 1500m. Hardly a successful coching stay with Razcko considering he was working quite hard.
Don't forget Raczko produced another 1:48 kid in Richard Smith, who went on to make a World Junior team.
Until Tinman produces his own athlete, I would give the nod to Raczko.
Comparisons are stupid. But the great thing about Tinman is that all his coaching theories and opinions can be found on the Internet. No real secrets. Just like Canova. That's what makes him really great.
What do you mean produces his own athlete? Drew's mom was coached by tinman who coached Drew and basically asked tinman every day on his message board what to do with him until tinman started coaching him for free to give back to the sport
Here is the reality. There are some great coaches and some poor coaches. Both of these coaches have coached at an elite level. It is really hard to say that one coach (just like when the "best distance coach in NCAA or pro coach threads come up) is better than another. Every coach is in a unique situation. Their supervisors are different, training environment is different, the athletes have different strengths, etc..
Why does one have to be better than the other? Just say that that are both very solid coaches.
I do not think John McDonnell was the greatest coach to get random athlete to his absolute potential limit BUT there has never been a better track coach imho.
Razcko gets a lot of criticism, but Tinman has a ways to go on the international scene before he gets to Razcko's status.
In addition to Webb, Razcko had Moises Joseph make a World Champs team or two in the 800m, a female marathoner make a world team for the U.S.,Nikeya Green win an indoor USATF title in the 800m and a handful of other national class marks.
Webb had his ups and downs, but Razcko could coach.
Bop wrote:
What do you mean produces his own athlete? Drew's mom was coached by tinman who coached Drew and basically asked tinman every day on his message board what to do with him until tinman started coaching him for free to give back to the sport
To give back to the sport?
He coached him for free because Hunter was a stud, a super talent.
Razcko didn't keep his training a secret, he gave clinics. He had a great Distance Medley and coached very good high school teams before and after Webb.
I feel that Razcko interfered with Webb's development by openly second guessing Warhurst and putting doubt in Webb's head. Hopefully Tinman won't make that mistake
If Tinman had coached Webb, Webb would have finished just behind El G in 3:50 - 3:51 at Pre 2001. Webb would have went on to win at least one gold at 1500m and likely been within a second of the WR for the mile and/or the1500m. Webb had more raw speed and talent but than Drew but Tinman is far and away the better coach.
jman1 wrote:
If Tinman had coached Webb, Webb would have finished just behind El G in 3:50 - 3:51 at Pre 2001. Webb would have went on to win at least one gold at 1500m and likely been within a second of the WR for the mile and/or the1500m. Webb had more raw speed and talent but than Drew but Tinman is far and away the better coach.
Or maybe Raczko did a much better job of developing webb's speed than Tinman did with Hunter.