Marathon Race Pace from Half Results

You shouldn't have an problems getting a BQ or even breaking 3:00. My half PR is 1:18:42 (with more prep than yours) and I'm going for about 2:50 in my next marathon. My advice for the marathon is don't go out too fast. Try to have a small negative split.

Thanks dusty,

I guess I'm just kinda worried about blowing up if I'm doing all of these marathon pace workouts at 6:15 pace. Looking at a lot of the threads on here, it seems like the common advice is a conservative first half especially if it is your first race. I've just seen some friends that I use to train with either fall apart in the last several miles or have to pull out due to injuries and if I'm being honest, I'm afraid of the distance. It helps to have someone like you who has done it before reinforce all of this.

I would suggest a pace more like 6:30 for training. I think your goal should be around 2:50. On race day, 6:30-40 for the first half sounds about right.

Some other food for thought: I typically try to do 3 runs of 13 miles or so at my marathon pace, with the last coming about 3 weeks out from the marathon. Ideally, I try to find half marathons to use for these runs since it lets me run on closed courses and with support. In each instance that I have done this, I remember thinking very clearly that there was no way on Earth that I would be able to maintain that pace for another 13.1 because I felt like I was starting to redline after just a half. Of course, the taper would take hold and the pace felt manageable for both of my marathons (although I did bonk in my first marathon and suffer cramps that cause me to stop and stretch in my second - though I still had decent performances in both races and I don't think it was the pacing that did me in in either case).

Marco Brolo wrote:

I would suggest a pace more like 6:30 for training. I think your goal should be around 2:50. On race day, 6:30-40 for the first half sounds about right.

I agree. Rule of thumb I use is HMX2 + 10 minutes, which puts you right around a theoretical 2:45. I'd stick with the 6:30 pace until ~mile 18 then pick things up if you are feeling good. I've paced 3:05 a couple of times and have seen plenty of guys who feel/look fresh at the halfway point go out on their own; I usually pass them around mile 19/20 and they can't get back on.

Make sure you have your nutrition plan on point, bonking at mile 21 would suck.

MM3307 wrote:

[Make sure you have your nutrition plan on point, bonking at mile 21 would suck.

The man speaks truths. Lesson learned in NYC in 2014. I would say figure out what your nutrition plan should be before the race, and stick to it even when you inevitably decide later in the race that you feel okay and that you could not choke down another gel, despite your plan. The bonk comes on fast, and by the time your realize it is happening, it is too late to do anything about it. choke that last one down at 20 or 23 miles or whenever you think you will need it, despite the fact that you probably won't want it at that point.

What do you guys recommend? I know I'm a far ways away from my race, but while I have you guys on the thread I'd like to pick your brain.

I sweat a disgusting amount, so I'm already preparing to have to take lots of water but I see many resources with varying amounts of nutrition advice. Should I take water at every station? Some advocate no more than 2 gels in a race, others suggest one every 5k after 15k, and then there are people who say you can't mix the gels and a sports drink.

How should I practice these things on my run? Trying a gel halfway through my long run and seeing how it affects my stomach?

6:30-6:40 definitely sounds like a much more doable plan than 6:15s and I'll probably go out on the conservative end of the spectrum. Thanks for all the advice/help.

At your pace, I would suggest a gel twice during your race. Around the halfway mark and then again around mile 20.

Depending on the heat yes you should take water at every station generally every 2 miles. Why?

It is so hard to get water while running you get a tiny cup and mostly throw it on yourself. So taking one every station you probably only get a little water so take it every chance you can get.

I would try a gel halfway through the LR or around mile 13 of a 20 miler. Something like that. Just to see how you feel.

I planned on taking about 5 gels in NYC during the race - 5, 10, 15, 18 and 22. My thought process was that at my size, I could probably story about 2000 calories if I carbo loaded, and would expend about 2600 will racing, so I would run a deficit of about 600 calories; so that is how much I tried to make up during the race. I don't think I ever took the gel at 18, and I know I didn't take any after that. I got to 20 or 21 one feeling pretty good, tried to drop the pack I was with, got strung out alone in the wind (2014), and cratered pretty hard finishing at 2:35 but struggling to keep it under 7:00 pace the last few miles.

When I ran my second marathon this past fall (Chicago), I went back to my original plan and stuck with it. I did not bonk, although I did suffer pretty bad calf cramps because it was on the warm side that day, resulting in me having to stop repeatedly over the last 10k. I still managed an okay split (1:14 low, 1:16 high, 2:30 high) and won my age group; but I think I had a 2:28 in me that day but for the cramps. I wish I had experimented with salt tablets before the race so that I could have used them race day to help with cramping.

I try to alternate taking in water and Gatorade every water station, but probably don't quite get there, often dumping the water over my head to cool if necessary. What's ideal is grabbing water bottles from spectators (maybe family members who are waiting at specified spots). I find the bottles are easier to drink from and you can carry them a bit and get a few good gulps and share with guys around you.

Like everything else, practice this before race day, and practice it using whatever is going to be on the race course that day. I intentionally used Power Gels (which I preferred any way as they aren't as thick as some of the others) because that was what I would be able to get at the 18 mile mark on the Chicago course, and this made it easy to only carry three gels. And practice taking it in at race speed (again, this is why I like doing my last marathon paced run in a half marathon race setting).

I also take Imodium on race day to help fight off stomach issues.

How big are you? Weight wise?

I agree with the 2:50 guys here. Just don't go out at 2:45 pace.

Race day I was 5' 8", 145.

Previous PRs of:400m- 49.8 open800m-1:511500-3:565k-15:388k-26:10HM- 1:13:18I ran my first marathon on 35 mpw and blew up the last 10k, ran 2:52Did my next one on 8 weeks of 50 mpw and ran 2:37 (6:00 pace entire race)just do 3-4 long runs of 19-23 miles, ideally two of them with 10-13 miles at race pace in them. They are hard, but great indicators. If you can't do 10 easy, 10 at MP, you will struggle terribly the last 4-5 milesi think your goal should be 2:50-55 pacemain workouts (one during week, one on the weekend):4-5 x 2 mile at HM pace8-10 mile tempos at goal MP pace6 x mile @ 10k pace, 90-120 second restlong runs where the last miles are near MP - try to eat/drink s little as possible during these runsthe long run is where people new to the marathon will benefit the most in - do those 3-4 runs at 20-23 miles each.

Smoove wrote:

I also take Imodium on race day to help fight off stomach issues.

Imodium has been in the plan all along. I'm notorious for long bathroom breaks and a weak stomach, so this will be crucial haha

smart pacing-

thanks, I'll keep that in mind!

Marco-

I'm 5'8" and 155, but as I said earlier I sweat a lot so I'll definitely take all the advice and grab water at stations and try alternating it with the gatorade.

INSBUII-

Oh okay awesome, that's what my general plan was looking like anyways. I'm using Pfitzinger's 18 week 70 mile plan and he makes use of the long runs with long stretches of MP during the second half. Sick 800 pr btw!

Interesting. Seems like a lot of gel to take for a pretty light runner. But apparently it worked!

It may have been overkill, but after New York, I never wanted to experience that feeling again, so I figured better safe than sorry, especially since gels don't bother me at all. To be honest, NY was a crazy day because of the weather - sustained 25 mph winds with higher gusts. It is very possible that I simply worked harder than I otherwise would have if I had good weather and that made the deficit accrue more quickly. Either way, I'm sticking with that approach should I do a 3rd marathon.

3:05 is going to be a piece of cake for you. When I ran 2:43, I ran 1:18 for the half, but my mileage was high, 80-100 mpw. 2:50 would probably be a good, somewhat conservative goal.

boxyshoes wrote:

3:05 is going to be a piece of cake for you. When I ran 2:43, I ran 1:18 for the half, but my mileage was high, 80-100 mpw. 2:50 would probably be a good, somewhat conservative goal.

This. LRC promotes too much fear of the marathon. If a 1:18 half marathon can't break 3:00 easily, they didn't train properly for the marathon, or ran the marathon in 70F heat. 2:50

Wow, thanks everyone for the advice and sharing your experiences. It makes me feel a lot more confident in my ability to succeed as long as I train properly and stay healthy throughout