Mileage needed for sub-3 hour marathon

I broke 3 on roughly 45mpw. I was a few years older than you but new to running. I was actually still Gallowalking in my 2:57 marathon which was my third. At that point I wasn't doing any structured quality workouts, just running fast when I felt like it and slow when I didn't. Had not even done a 5K race at that point, so I can't share any useful benchmarks there but your issue is clearly endurance and not speed.

Just bump up your mileage and improvement will come. Lots of training plans available. Once I started getting organized about my running, I used Pfitzinger and had good results. I followed the 70mpw plan but you might give his 55mpw plan a shot (55 is the longest week, average is around 50 once you've built up). Conventional wisdom on this board is that his 55/18 "doesn't work" because it's not enough mileage, but you're not trying to maximize your potential right now, you're just going for sub-3 and it's more than adequate for that purpose.

Poster above gives you clues for sub 3. He did it without too much speed or track?

Thats the way to go. common mistake is people train like they do for 10K or Half and get it wrong with too much emphasis on speed Anerobic training.. this messes up Aerobic gains.. the marathon is something like 99% aerobic (correct me if I'm wrong) so why hammer out hard running every week

You kind of need to be knocking out an 80 min Half to be in the right place. forget 5K performances

I actually ran 78 mins half off 12 weeks of base only (easy 7 min miling) fastest i ran in 3 months was the race itself @6 min miling

keep it aerobic and try to run 50mpw and you should go sub 3

That's the plan re: upping mileage. Thanks for the insight.

I am planning on a 3 hr marathon off of around 50 mpw.

I would think its possible on even 40-45 for real good talents. To be safe I would say in the 60 mpw range.

I ran 2:47 on an average of 35 mpw for the 4, 6, 10, and 18 months preceding the race and a longest run of 18 miles. The marathon is different for everyone in terms of preparation. 5k times are a poor predictor. Run a 10k and take it times 4.5 for a rough guess.

Butt Naked wrote:

Poster above gives you clues for sub 3. He did it without too much speed or track?

Thats the way to go. common mistake is people train like they do for 10K or Half and get it wrong with too much emphasis on speed Anerobic training.. this messes up Aerobic gains.. the marathon is something like 99% aerobic (correct me if I'm wrong) so why hammer out hard running every week

You kind of need to be knocking out an 80 min Half to be in the right place. forget 5K performances

I actually ran 78 mins half off 12 weeks of base only (easy 7 min miling) fastest i ran in 3 months was the race itself @6 min miling

keep it aerobic and try to run 50mpw and you should go sub 3

interesting... i did a 2:56 on a 1:24Half, but my 10k is even less impressive. takes all types. i like the distance

I ran 2:53 many years ago on a base of 55-60 mpw, with a high of 84 on a week when I pushed my long run forward to Monday and thus notched two 15-16 milers in a 7 day period. (Previous marathons had been 3:06, 3:11, and 3:00:30 on somewhat less mileage.)

Assuming you're going to do it on singles, I think you should build to the following Monday-through-Sunday schedule at least 3-4 months out:

5

5

10

5

10

5

15

That's 55 mpw. From that, you can push the Wednesday/midweek run out to 12-14 and push the LR out to 18. Run at least three 20 milers. If possible, make at least one of those 20 milers a 21-22 miler. I'd keep everything else more or less as is. I leave it to others to suggest workouts and tweaks. Certainly some 2 x 3 mile or 3 x 2 mile tempos at HM pace would be great.

Tinman always advocates hills, which I'd second. If you can find a long run with hills in the final 3-5 miles, you'll be that much better conditioned. I found 60 second hill repeats at 3-5K intensity--hard but controlled--great for developing power and elastic strength, both of which tend to lag in the latter stages of marathons.

And yes: you should be closer to 1:20 than 1:25 in a HM. I was routinely racing 10Ks at 36 flat when I ran 2:53

it's so specific to your ability. don't ask these cookie-cutter, recipe-type questionsfor instance, here's the 3 marathons I've run:2:52 - 33 mpw (10 weeks average) 2 days off a week minimum2:37 - 48 mpw (average for 8 weeks, 55mile biggest week) 1-2 days off a week (ran 1:13:20 HM in this cycle) - mostly hard long runs and half marathon workouts2:32 - 55 mpw avg 8 wks (62 biggest week) - 1 day off a week (ran 1:12:33 HM 4 weeks before race) I was a 800m-1500m runner in college. speed based guy (49 400m) never really did more than 55 mpw. ran 1:50/3:48/15:15now i mostly train for HM's and 10k'sthe secret is just stringing a few years of injury free, consistent training together. and confidence. after every half marathon I always realize i can do my tempos and intervals faster. that's it.

Quarter Life Crisis wrote:

I'm curious - what types of ballpark mileages would runners require for certain marathon times? Any rules of thumb?

I'm looking to take a shot at sub-3/BQ in September and am wondering what to build towards.

Currently avg 35 mpw with a weekly tempo and long runs of 10-15 miles every other week. Recently ran 17:50 for 5K. 28 yr-old male running off and on since high school.

Last fall ran 3:11 marathon on similar mileage with 18:20 5K and 1:25 half marathon during the buildup. Never averaged more than 40 a week. Marathon splits were 1:30 - 1:41. Obviously the base was the problem.

What would be a recommended buildup and plan to hit the BQ?

"the secret is just stringing a few years of injury free, consistent training together. and confidence. after every half marathon I always realize i can do my tempos and intervals faster. that's it."

yep.

If you want to maximize your marathon potential:

Build miles slowly over time and stay healthy.

Injuries have derailed many many good runners who had potential.

I did 3:11 on 60 mpw. My PRs were 18:56 5K -39:06 10K-1:27:28 half

A woman who I usually beat usually by less than a minute in 10 milers upped the mileage to 70 mpw and ran 3:03 in the same race and beat me by 8 minutes a month before in a half.

Since you're faster than I was you could go under 3 on 50-55 mpw.

KudzuRunner wrote:

And yes: you should be closer to 1:20 than 1:25 in a HM. I was routinely racing 10Ks at 36 flat when I ran 2:53

FWIW, 8 weeks after that first sub-3 (2:57) I ran a 1:21 half, so that would corroborate your statement. My eventual PRs (off 65 mpw) were 1:15 and 2:41. After that I bumped my training up to 80-90 and various injuries ended my running. I've recently picked it up again, but only for health reasons and to set an example for my kids. My competing days are over.