20x400m workout for high schoolers

Make it 60x400, she will feel invincible after that

I have my kids do this once per season -- after our first meet (when I get more accurate data on their fitness). I call it the 20 Rep Challenge (some kids do 200s instead). The goal is to complete 12 reps at their assigned pace. The max for freshmen is 16, and anyone nursing a nagging injury has the workout adjusted as well.

We do sets of 4, and I mix up the paces between mile pace and 2 mile pace -- one minute rest between reps and one lap walk/jog between sets. I organize specific training groups so everyone is at the right level. I have a chart they review with their proper paces, and they know exactly what to expect for each set.

Kids get super pumped to give this workout a go. They have enough training under their belt to complete it, and they also know this is a once-a-season event -- I think that motivates them too. Kids for whom I have limited the reps often beg me to let them complete the workout, but I hold firm on my rules.

This year I brought in an alumni who also DJs to spin tunes over the PA system. It was quite an event and team bonding experience. Just saying that when workouts like this are properly planned, they can really build confidence. I don't like it when the workout "defeats" the athlete, so I try to create workouts they can "defeat" instead.

I forgot to mention this is the 3rd hard workout in the week. Hills Monday, 800m repeats today and 20* 400m on Friday. To my detractors, I didn't tell her to run 10k pace. I estimate what that is, I don't know for sure because he hasn't done a time trial, and told her a target time for each rep.

I wonder if the defenders of this workout are the same people on here who say middle schoolers shouldn't have a structured plan. That they should run for fun and not worry about mileage. So then on their 3rd week of practice in 9th grade they can run 20*400.

It's a stupid workout, unnecessary for a freshman. You are getting trolled by some people with some quality responses mixed in.

Just let her be a part of the team and if you sense she is getting ran into the ground maybe you should take more action. Other than that, let her do her thing (which it sounds like you are trying to do).

I would have very similar feelings towards this as you do.

We did 16x400 all 4 years of high school. Granted it was a once a season (xc) workout, but it was fun.

I regularly ran 20x400 with no rest when I was a freshman. And I'd be embarrassed if my dad ever talked with my coach about my workouts.

Another idiot coach? wrote:

I forgot to mention this is the 3rd hard workout in the week. Hills Monday, 800m repeats today and 20* 400m on Friday. To my detractors, I didn't tell her to run 10k pace. I estimate what that is, I don't know for sure because he hasn't done a time trial, and told her a target time for each rep.

I wonder if the defenders of this workout are the same people on here who say middle schoolers shouldn't have a structured plan. That they should run for fun and not worry about mileage. So then on their 3rd week of practice in 9th grade they can run 20*400.

For the record, I am not defending this workout so much as I am attacking your choices in handling your concerns. Quit blabbing on LR and make a friggin appointment with the coach, if you have the balls to look someone in the eye. I am guessing that you are more the "talk behind someone's back, vent and make myself feel better, and possibly get someone fired" type, tho, since your parents obviously never taught you how to directly and constructively confront someone when you have an issue. (I say that last part, because you are instilling the same passive aggressive traits in your daughter by asking her to run "a 10k pace" instead of encouraging her to ask her coach directly.) Twenty years from now, maybe fewer, you daughter will be the helicopter parent, while you look on from the sidelines, wondering why everyone doesn't think the same way that you do, and why your grandchild is so spineless.

You are making serious assumptions about the OP. Nothing here shows that he is a helicopter parent, merely that he's concerned, and if you think that a concerned parent seeking advice about running from a RUNNING forum before discussing the issue with the coach is "talking behind someone's back" then you're a moron. No names or schools were given, obviously he's not making serious efforts to "undermine" the coach. He's concerned with a stupid workout for freshmen girls, that will probably end up being much shorter than the girl thought, having probably misheard. If that is the real workout, advising his daughter to run a smart pace she can hold for the entire workout is smart and helpful, because newsflash, there are stupid coaches out there who would yell at her to run faster than she can handle, and it'd discourage a freshman girl far more than you anticipate.

Some of you on here have been running for too long to recognize how intimidating this workout can be to a newbie.

20x400m with no rest? So you are saying you regularly just ran 5 miles straight? I also had 5 mile runs in high school.

As for the parent asking the question. Detractors/Defenders? Come on man. Are you pissed because not everyone is validating your viewws? You asked what people thought about this workout and people are giving you feedback. Some agree with you and some don't.

Also, in your initial posts, you never mentioned that she was doing hills Monday, 800s Wednesday, and 20x400s on Friday. It was actually quite different. You initially stated the daughter told you the weekly workouts and it showed the 20x400s on Thursday (Not Friday) and that she previously ran 4x800s the previous week. Why the change? Also, what is considered a 'hill' workout for your daughter. It can be intervals up 200m to 400m hills or can be short wind sprints up hills at the end of an easy training run.

If this really is concerning to you, then talk to the coach or at least watch a practice to see what kind of effort the coach is having your daughter run these workouts. If they are jogging around the track, this is a non-issue. It is easy to get worked up when you do not have all the information.

I AM making some assumptions, but probably not the ones you think.

Fact: he came to LetsRun to complain, calling the coach an Idiot in his handle, instead of asking the coach directly. Assumption: he is probably doing the same thing with other parents in the program via social media.

Fact: he told his daughter to disregard the coach's instructions, with the ambiguous advice to "just run 10k pace to limit the damage". Fact: he has planted the seed in his daughter than the coach is doing more harm than good. Assumption: he probably does this, consciously or subconsciously, on a regular basis.

Fact: He subverted the coach's instructions without encouraging the daughter to speak to the coach directly. Assumption: because of these life lessons the father is teaching his daughter, the daughter will one day follow in her father's helicopter footsteps.

And, lol your "smart pace' comment. The dad never even said "smart pace", he said "10k pace". If the daughter is as inexperienced as she is portrayed, then she probably has no concept of what a "10k pace" is.

People like you enable these helicopter parents. I suspect that you ARE the OP, tbh... but THAT is an assumption :-)

Another idiot coach? wrote:

I forgot to mention this is the 3rd hard workout in the week. Hills Monday, 800m repeats today and 20* 400m on Friday. To my detractors, I didn't tell her to run 10k pace. I estimate what that is, I don't know for sure because he hasn't done a time trial, and told her a target time for each rep.

I wonder if the defenders of this workout are the same people on here who say middle schoolers shouldn't have a structured plan. That they should run for fun and not worry about mileage. So then on their 3rd week of practice in 9th grade they can run 20*400.

And now we know you are a fraud. After not receiving the answer you wanted you magically forgot about the other "hard" stuff your daughter has to do.

If your daughter has any clue what her 10k pace is than you've already ruined her. Freshmen, especially girls, shouldn't know 10k pace. You've probably had her training since 4th grade.

Helicopter Parents Suck wrote:

If your daughter has any clue what her 10k pace is than you've already ruined her. Freshmen, especially girls, shouldn't know 10k pace. You've probably had her training since 4th grade.

Not a chance. The OP seems more the type that wants schools to raise his kids for him... then, he can complain when they don't do it right.

Another Idiot Parent? wrote:

Not a chance. The OP seems more the type that wants schools to raise his kids for him... then, he can complain when they don't do it right.

You sound like a whiny little sissy.

Waaaa he posted something wrote:

Another Idiot Parent? wrote:

Not a chance. The OP seems more the type that wants schools to raise his kids for him... then, he can complain when they don't do it right.

You sound like a whiny little sissy.

ok, OP.

How has this thread made it this far? 5 miles of 400 reps is a great way to build confidence for these beginners. These freshman just did 5 miles of running.

The inherit problem I see is no guidance for pace.

Only did that in high school, early-ish in track season. Maybe one time per season.

Never in college. In fact, I don't remember a single 400 effort (officially) in college. In fact, I don't quite remember college. But I do remember not doing 20x400 more than once a season in high school.

(And I do know that I was faster than anyone running in any high school around me now.)

Did this in high school all four years, maybe two or three weeks into the season.

Senior year 72-74 with 90 second standing around rests. We'd just walk a big oval and get back at it. The younger runners bailed at 10, 12, 14. Coach was getting soft, apparently.

We also had an interestingly-timed 12-minute-run in "gym class" about this same time. Since all the distance guys weren't in the same gym class, it was a contest that we'd update in the halls between classes. No smart phones. I think the longest anyone went was 50 meters short of 9 laps. We always had an easy practice those days. Go figure.