top Canadian coach calls out drug cheats beating his athletes

fred wrote:

"who continued in the sport long term, that is still close to 100%. I would put it at around 90-95%. I consider that close to 100%."

90% isn't close to 100%. Go back to school

Why would you continue on if you can't run a 3:36 for 1500. Of course they don't continue on, they don't have any talent to run at the next level.

And the guys that do have talent quit because they can't compete with the dopers. So don't blame it on the coach.

Millenials are lazy slackers anyway.

You know nothing about me or what I am educated in. Yes, 90% is close to 100%, and when I said 90-95% I was being generous. It's likely closer to 99% long-term and throughout the CIS. Your comments make it clear you have nothing to add to this discussion and have resorted to attacking me along with an entire generation of people to make up for that, so I have no interest in talking to you further. Best of luck.

fred wrote:

Why would you continue on if you can't run a 3:36 for 1500. Of course they don't continue on, they don't have any talent to run at the next level.

And the guys that do have talent quit because they can't compete with the dopers. So don't blame it on the coach.

Millenials are lazy slackers anyway.

Above quote doesn't really fit with

fred wrote:

The coach didn't make them hate running. You either love running or you don't. Self motivated people just go out and do it.

metric assassin wrote:

fred wrote:

Why would you continue on if you can't run a 3:36 for 1500. Of course they don't continue on, they don't have any talent to run at the next level.

And the guys that do have talent quit because they can't compete with the dopers. So don't blame it on the coach.

Millenials are lazy slackers anyway.

Above quote doesn't really fit with

fred wrote:

The coach didn't make them hate running. You either love running or you don't. Self motivated people just go out and do it.

If you are self motivated you go out and run the 140 miles a week, and see what happens.

It's got nothing to do with a coach. Whiny whiners should take up something else like crotch fit.

A coach can absolutely make you hate running even if you are motivated. If the coach creates an environment that is very negative or stressful then that sucks the joy out of training and competing, sometimes permanently.

Not saying DST/SR is like that, but it's a reality of coaching/training groups that can't be ignored.

True. If you love running, you continue running. You see it in masters athletes who keeps competing year after year. If you don't love running, then running a specific performance, world class or not, isn't going to make you love it. If everyone who didn't have any talent to run at the next level, regardless of what that next level is for them, quit running, there wouldn't be anyone running, so it's a good thing that attitude isn't more pervasive.

It's not a coach's job to be a cheerleader or to keep athletes motivated, but it is definitely on the coach to know the athletes well enough to help them achieve some of their goals in the sport. If that means helping them set smaller goals first, the coach needs to encourage them to do that. They might not even clue in that their goals are too far out of reach unless someone points it out to them. If it means steering them in a different direction, the coach needs to do that, too. Part of having the knowledge to guide someone is knowing when they're off course. Some athletes run the 800m when they should be running the 5k. Look at Evan Jager. He was focused on the 1500m, but he's a far better steeplechaser. Would he have switched to the steeple if his coach hadn't guided him there? Probably not.

I think some of the problem with schools is that most people are not self motivated. They rely on their team practices and their coaches to tell them what to do, and they go do it, all through high school and university. Their coaches decide which races they go to, and the school pays for it, and books the hotels, and pays for the bus that drives them or the plane that flies them. When they get out in the real world, they have to do that for themselves, and they aren't prepared. They had to learn to do their own school work because in university the professor isn't going to hold your hand. So they graduate and are motivated to work, but not to run on their own. Often not even if they were one of the best.

His name is just Dave Thomas but he knows there is a famous Dace Scott so he threw that back in there so that he comes up on a google search for the other guy.

The other Canadian Dave Thomas is half of Bob and Doug McKenzie.

Delmonte should make a film covering 15 years of former UG/SR athletes

"Where are they now?"

How did the LTAD work out for them?

https://vimeo.com/michaeldelmonte

Well Coolsaet ran the second fastest marathon ever for a Canadian, and he was 35-36. Gillis ran 2:11. Milne was racing indoors in the U.S. in 2016 and won a couple of races at age 35. Rae was at 3:36 this year.

So why are guys coming to live in Guelph and train with Dave?

Moulton and dst have been the best recruiters in Canada over the past decade. Some people have incorrectly commended them for their senior athlete development, when in fact the credit should go to their ability to get a very large number of collegiate and senior age athletes to join their program, from which a few have risen to a relatively high level.

In the current Athletics Canada carding list, there are 0 Speed River athletes in the highest tier of carding, which includes people like Hughes. In terms of developing top tier athletes, they are again being given more credit than they deserve, though this is quickly changing.

Coolsaet is a great example of someone who developed over the long-term, from first year athlete at the university of guelph to a 2:10 marathoner. It doesn't appear that anyone else has followed his development path since, with this group.

Melissa Bishop is also a great example of someone who developed from undergrad age to Worlds medalist all under the same coach. She achieved more than anyone from Speed River ever has, but her coach isn't given nearly the same credit for athlete development. Again, this is starting to change.

Her(Bishop) coach isn't a mouthpiece that's why.

613-519 wrote:

Her(Bishop) coach isn't a mouthpiece that's why.

Bishop - Windsor - 1:59

Aubry - Guelph - 2:01

fred wrote:

613-519 wrote:

Her(Bishop) coach isn't a mouthpiece that's why.

Bishop - Windsor - 1:59

Aubry - Guelph - 2:01

Fred - quit being a guelph cheerleader all the time.

Bishop - 1:57 (National Record)

Aubry 2:01

This is a 4 second difference which is huge.

last time Bish ran 1:59 was at OFSAA ROTFL

fred wrote:

613-519 wrote:

Her(Bishop) coach isn't a mouthpiece that's why.

Bishop - Windsor - 1:59

Aubry - Guelph - 2:01

Aside from your times being wrong, as already pointed out, what exactly is your point in comparing someone who earned a silver medal at Worlds with someone who watched it on TV?

Agreed with the previous point about the Windsor coaches not being as vocal about their distance runners success as Guelph is. Same could be said of Wynn G's group, which I believe has produced a few top-8 performances at Worlds over the years, again something above and beyond what Speed River has ever developed, but receiving far less attention.

I don't think you'd see these kinds of responses if the guelph group boasted about being the 4th or 5th best 'development' group in Canada. Course, you would still be seeing the posts calling them out for cheating in terms of National team selection, National championship bids, and athlete carding money. That and the weird story a couple years ago about Coolsaet donating thousands of dollars to the guelph track fundraiser and then several weeks later launching a personal fundraising campaign asking for thousands of dollars to support his next overseas training camp.

So what happened with this athlete carding thing, did the best athletes based on the posted criteria end up getting the money?

Yes, Dennis was a great coach and a nice guy. I watched his practices from 84 to 2010. He had some great runners that people never heard of.

Peter Fonseca ( 2:11 marathoner ) ran there one year.

Coolset donated $10,000 to the new track!!!

then begged for money

777-9311 wrote:

Coolset donated $10,000 to the new track!!!

then begged for money

That sounds about right, Coolsaet donated $10k to their new track fundraiser, then turned around and pocketed $4k-$5k from a personal fundraiser to go train in Kenya. I thought it very weird at the time and wondered why he didn't just donate closer to $5k to the new track and not bother asking people to fund his trip to Kenya.

I heard the coaches in Guelph taught their boys how to say "fits the narrative" this year. One of the athletes asked about Dave's comments on anonymous posting and if it applied to their group as well and Moulton told them it's okay to post anonymously, after which the gathered athletes erupted in roars of "Speed River, we're the best!"