top Canadian coach calls out drug cheats beating his athletes

notoldyet wrote:

Athletics Ontario needs a new Q4G committee.

Looks like that is being done at least partially (only one carry-over from previous committee):

derf wrote:

fred wrote:

Nate lived in Michigan, Florida and Ohio.

When was the last time that Nate Brannen lived in Ontario?

15 years ago?

Does he get funding from Ontario? If so, why?

Do people write these kinds of responses when Canadians that live in the US get AC carding??

You are backwards, bro. We are talking about giving province of Ontario money to aspiring young runners in Ontario.

fred wrote:

derf wrote:

Do people write these kinds of responses when Canadians that live in the US get AC carding??

You are backwards, bro. We are talking about giving province of Ontario money to aspiring young runners in Ontario.

Yes, and that poster is making a direct comparison to the National level.

Um, yeah wrote:

notoldyet wrote:

Athletics Ontario needs a new Q4G committee.

Looks like that is being done at least partially (only one carry-over from previous committee):

http://athleticsontario.ca/committees/

As the provincial ministry is aware of the issues, AO was likely told to form a new committee.

reading comprehension wrote:

fred wrote:

You are backwards, bro. We are talking about giving province of Ontario money to aspiring young runners in Ontario.

Yes, and that poster is making a direct comparison to the National level.

Yeah, so what. The discussion was about the province of Ontario funding. Can't you comprehend what was written. Maybe you can go to U of G after you getting some tutoring.

To the poster wondering why someone like Rae would participate in this discussion for a while and then leave, have a look at a comment like the one below. Is there justification for this claim that athletes lied on their applications? It's one thing not to have the requisite credentials when you submit an application, hoping that somehow you'll succeed anyway. And I don't consider that such an egregious action. (Of course, if your own coach then rigs things so money heads your way that's a different matter.) But did athletes actually lie outright on their applications and if so, how?

card ullman wrote:

Perverse?

How do you feel about these Speed River athletes being given special treatment while Alex Ullman doesn't get carded?

The main differences are that Ullman competed at the domestic Championships while Hendrikx and Allison lied on their applications and in their appeal.

Er... wrote:

To the poster wondering why someone like Rae would participate in this discussion for a while and then leave, have a look at a comment like the one below. Is there justification for this claim that athletes lied on their applications? It's one thing not to have the requisite credentials when you submit an application, hoping that somehow you'll succeed anyway. And I don't consider that such an egregious action. (Of course, if your own coach then rigs things so money heads your way that's a different matter.) But did athletes actually lie outright on their applications and if so, how?

card ullman wrote:

Perverse?

How do you feel about these Speed River athletes being given special treatment while Alex Ullman doesn't get carded?

The main differences are that Ullman competed at the domestic Championships while Hendrikx and Allison lied on their applications and in their appeal.

Yes, there is justification for this claim, and it is based on the raw application data that Athletics Ontario is unwilling to post publicly. In this data, which led to the late-January nominations, 3 Speed River athletes were being given Championship placing points that they did not earn, according to the criteria.

On the application form, athletes are to fill in (for a Senior)..."placing in your event among Ontario athletes at the 2015 Athletics Ontario Senior Outdoor Championships..."

Same thing for "...the 2015 Canadian Senior Outdoor Championships."

Somewhere between filling out this application and the January nominations, points were awarded to these 3 athletes that should not have been. Either the athletes lied on their applications and the committee voted in favour of approving them (and the committee DID vote on them, that's been confirmed), or the athletes left part of their forms blank and the committee took it upon themselves to falsify the data and add points. So, there is the possibility that the athletes did not lie, but in that scenario the transgressions of the committee become even worse!

In the end, it seems clear that the criteria needs some rethinking. The athletes being discussed unfortunately found themselves in a no-man's land between national and provincial carding. Ross went from being nationally carded (which automatically earns you QFG), to no carding at all. When a 3:39/13:29 guy who did compete at AO's (albeit in the "wrong" event) fails to earn any support of support, changes need to be made.

At this point, there seems to be no new information being brought to light (seemingly a deliberate decision made by the committee). How then do we avoid this issue in future years?

1. Clearly define how exemptions are given.

2. Solve the issue of an athlete competing in two or more events.

3. Make the minutes from the selection committee meeting public.

canadatrackfan wrote:

In the end, it seems clear that the criteria needs some rethinking. The athletes being discussed unfortunately found themselves in a no-man's land between national and provincial carding. Ross went from being nationally carded (which automatically earns you QFG), to no carding at all. When a 3:39/13:29 guy who did compete at AO's (albeit in the "wrong" event) fails to earn any support of support, changes need to be made.

At this point, there seems to be no new information being brought to light (seemingly a deliberate decision made by the committee). How then do we avoid this issue in future years?

1. Clearly define how exemptions are given.

2. Solve the issue of an athlete competing in two or more events.

3. Make the minutes from the selection committee meeting public.

Hendrikx and Allison are not in no-man's land between national and provincial carding; there were quite a few provincially carded athletes with stronger performances than theirs. If it's not clear, they are competing against throwers, jumpers, etc. not just other distance runners.

Proudfoot I agree is on the bubble, though I think he did end up getting national carding, bumping Tim Hendry. However, Proudfoot made a decision to not participate in the provincial 5,000m championships, choosing instead to run the 1,500m only. This looks to be a mistake on his part, not an issue with the provincial criteria. That his coach is on the carding committee and should know the criteria by heart, this mistake looks even worse!

Moving to Van won't get you injured. Certain training will though! Plenty of good athletes out there in vancouver, some seem to be injured a LOT more than others

Yea man wrote:

Moving to Van won't get you injured. Certain training will though! Plenty of good athletes out there in vancouver, some seem to be injured a LOT more than others

Exactly and you can say the same for any major city like Vancouver or Toronto

fred wrote:

Yeah, so what. The discussion was about the province of Ontario funding. Can't you comprehend what was written. Maybe you can go to U of G after you getting some tutoring.

Hahaha, thanks Fred that made my day!

I doubt then have anything to hide, as much as they realized nothing they could say would make any difference in stemming the trolls, so they stopped feeding them.

When guys like Meizner, Hutch, and Normington makes posts on the various Trackie threads about Speed River issues, only the most ignorant of supporters would stoop to calling them trolls.

24intherain wrote:

When guys like Meizner, Hutch, and Normington makes posts on the various Trackie threads about Speed River issues, only the most ignorant of supporters would stoop to calling them trolls.

Look at this thread - lots of knowledgeable guys here with valid concerns. But they are trolls because they just keep going and going and going, saying the same thing over and over again - pouncing on any opening they can find to say the same thing again.

If their concerns have merit, they must find a way to address them that goes beyond rehashing it to the small group of SR haters that are reading this thread.

sdcss wrote:

24intherain wrote:

When guys like Meizner, Hutch, and Normington makes posts on the various Trackie threads about Speed River issues, only the most ignorant of supporters would stoop to calling them trolls.

Look at this thread - lots of knowledgeable guys here with valid concerns. But they are trolls because they just keep going and going and going, saying the same thing over and over again - pouncing on any opening they can find to say the same thing again.

If their concerns have merit, they must find a way to address them that goes beyond rehashing it to the small group of SR haters that are reading this thread.

And what do you suggest?

sdcss wrote:

24intherain wrote:

When guys like Meizner, Hutch, and Normington makes posts on the various Trackie threads about Speed River issues, only the most ignorant of supporters would stoop to calling them trolls.

Look at this thread - lots of knowledgeable guys here with valid concerns. But they are trolls because they just keep going and going and going, saying the same thing over and over again - pouncing on any opening they can find to say the same thing again.

If their concerns have merit, they must find a way to address them that goes beyond rehashing it to the small group of SR haters that are reading this thread.

It actually shouldn't be necessary to keep repeating the same points over and over again. But, sadly, those of you attempting to reduce this issue to one of "trolls" and "haters", or those saying, in essence "nothing to see here, let's move on", make it necessary. No more stupid replies, no more thread. It's as simple as that. Unless, that is, more concrete information becomes available-- such as the details of the appeals that led to the allotment of "special ministry cards" for the aforementioned SR athletes.

spurgeon wrote:

sdcss wrote:

Look at this thread - lots of knowledgeable guys here with valid concerns. But they are trolls because they just keep going and going and going, saying the same thing over and over again - pouncing on any opening they can find to say the same thing again.

If their concerns have merit, they must find a way to address them that goes beyond rehashing it to the small group of SR haters that are reading this thread.

And what do you suggest?

It isn't for me to solve their problem. If indeed, there is a problem.

However, I find it hard to believe that all governing bodies that are supposedly in bed with SR have zero accountability - either through the appeals process, or director elections, appeals to government that funds them, to going to court/arbitration to enforce internal guideline, mission statements, etc.

Simply complaining online isn't going to do anything.

Give money to Natasha Wodak and she will metal in Rio.