How many other people think Hunter should consider going pro in June and stick with Tinman?

Over the past few decades I can't name but one or two distance athletes in track who ever actually amounted to anything significant after staying in the collegiate system for four full years. I know many of us ran in college and it was great while it lasted, but none of us were in Drew's league. I hate to say it but college running has ruined many more talented athletes than it has helped. Most systems, even Oregon, is a glorified fraternity for runners.

Bosskk wrote:

3. Hunter is not a miler.

Tinman wrote this last February -

http://www.therunzone.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3296&sid=a4defa96609d1f71d936e565c1eeab2a

- "Drew is not a miler. He’s very much like Craig Virgin (who didn’t start running until his sophomore year in high school, just like Jim Ryun). Craig was a star endurance athlete, who ran a full 2 miles in 8:40 in the early 1970s, his third year of running, and he could clobber people in cross-country due to fantastic aerobic capacity and endurance. Craig was a star in college and beyond, winning two world cross country titles, setting the American record for 10,000m. I think Drew is the same as Craig."

I used to think the same thing, but now I'm not sure! 3:58.25 converts to approximately a 8:28 - 8:30 two mile. And thats on an indoor track. If he has more endurance, does that mean he could probably run 8:20 right now on an indoor track? Time will tell. I'm curious if Tinman still thinks that statement is true.

Sully raced for a long time but his worthwhile years ended in 2000. So he had about 2 years.

Bbbiyihnhui wrote:

Sully, who was also a HS megastar, decided to go the NCAA way because he was planning to have a long career. He felt that going "pro" early May be better for him in the short run, but that he would feel out of place and grow tired of it quickly.

Being part of a team, being around people his age, running against some of the best young runners in the world would be beneficial for him.

Willis had the same thought I believe.

Will Hunter be able to adapt to a new training routine? That's the big question. It didn't work out well for LV, Webb... But did work out well for Sully, Willis, Ches...

Tough call...

jman1 wrote:

Over the past few decades I can't name but one or two distance athletes in track who ever actually amounted to anything significant after staying in the collegiate system for four full years. I know many of us ran in college and it was great while it lasted, but none of us were in Drew's league. I hate to say it but college running has ruined many more talented athletes than it has helped. Most systems, even Oregon, is a glorified fraternity for runners.

The problem with this post is that the NCAA is the BEST DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM IN THE WORLD FOR TRACK & FIELD. Look at the WC and OG fields and tell me another "system" that sends more athletes to those events. Your post was asinine and reeks of someone who lacks intelligence about track & field as a whole.

Bosskk wrote:

I would hate to see another Webb situation happen again. Don't fix it if it ain't broke. Am I not the only one who thinks it is worth exploring? Financially it makes sense if he gets a great offer like Webb did, and at Oregon I could see chasing Cheserek being a problem that would lead to overtraining.

What races would he be able to get into to show his ability? The fastest 19 year olds in American history were Ritzenhein and Fernandez and Derrick. They all had a similar record to Hunter as a junior and senior and they ran 13:27, 13:25 and 13:29 respectively as college freshmen.

So, best case scenario is he runs 3:36 and 13:20 as a 19-year-old next year, that would be an out-of-this-world time. It is more likely that he will be slower. He will not be able to get into any DL meets and I doubt that he would be able to get into the IWC meets (IAAF World Challenge). I looked up meet results from last year and in Berlin, Mead and Lagat went 13:10 and 13:17 in early September. So maybe he could get into these meets, but what do you think he will place. In the Rieti 3k 7:57 was 9th place.

How much money would you think it would be worth paying somebody who would finish 5th or 7th at Mt SAC or Stanford when only hardcore running geeks know the significance of his track marks?

I guess Ritz and Webb went pro early, and it worked out for them more or less. But at least Ritz took several shots and NCAA Championships and even ran WCCC as a freshman and placed 24th at the peak of African domination.

If Hunter progresses strongly (better than say Virgin or Ritz or Derrick) then it may make sense to leave school before 4 years (or remember Rupp took 5 years), but leaving before you ever got going would be retarded, at least at this point where he has "just" run 3:58.25y.

Another thing we all have to remember (and accept!!) is that the modern, banked tracks are faster than outdoor ones. They have banks, they have no wind, and they are temperature-controlled.

In the same year Rupp ran 3:50.92i (winning) and 3:52.11 (placing 5th) outdoors. Similarly in 2013 he ran 7:30.16i, 7:33.67 (2nd), and has run 7:43.24 (5th), 7:46.34 (1st), 7:49.16 (4th) outdoors. In the 5k he has run 13:01i (1st) and 12:59 (3rd) and 13:01 (4th) outdoors.

His body of work is the best support for the fact that fast indoor tracks are faster than outdoor.

There is no upside to him going pro early.

fred wrote:

Momcoach at 51 could run a 65 sec 400 and a 5:36 mile.

That's doing Tinman's training. I could train her to run faster.

Would you train me then? Give me a way to get in touch.

Americans run too many races and run too many hard intervals! We will never beat the Africans this way! We need to be patient.

jman1 wrote:

Over the past few decades I can't name but one or two distance athletes in track who ever actually amounted to anything significant after staying in the collegiate system for four full years. I know many of us ran in college and it was great while it lasted, but none of us were in Drew's league. I hate to say it but college running has ruined many more talented athletes than it has helped. Most systems, even Oregon, is a glorified fraternity for runners.

This is a dumb and over-simplified statement. Just off the top a few who went 4 yrs and weren't ruined:

Galen Rupp

Chris Derrick

Hassan Mead

Ben True

Jordan Hasay

Todd Williams

Bob Kennedy

Simon Bairu

Maverick Darling

Jorge Torres

Martin Hehir

Ryan Hill

Bobby Curtis

Bernard Lagat

Adam Goucher

Meb Keflezighi

Abdi Abdirahman

If I actually looked at lists I could name 2000 people who don't support what you maintain.

rojo wrote:

2. Tinman is a very good coach but he didn't make Hunter. Quick who was Ritzenhein's HS coach? Yep, you can't name him. Then Ritz had Wetmore, Hudson, Salazar and now himself.

Pretty bad example. Everyone who was a fan since at least 2000 knows who Ritz's HS coach was. You're showing your lack of knowledge on this one....

Seeing as he made headlines for being fired for giving innocent pills like Advil that were against school rules and Ritz defended him openly. Hard to not know who Ritz's coach was.....

runfastoldman wrote:

I used to think the same thing, but now I'm not sure! 3:58.25 converts to approximately a 8:28 - 8:30 two mile. And thats on an indoor track. If he has more endurance, does that mean he could probably run 8:20 right now on an indoor track? Time will tell. I'm curious if Tinman still thinks that statement is true.

Yes, he will be able to run 8:20 on an indoor track. No 18 year old in American HS history has broken 8:40y but this guy will be able to run 8:20 full-stop.

Sullys PB in the 1500 is from 2001.

peaked in Sydney wrote:

Sully raced for a long time but his worthwhile years ended in 2000. So he had about 2 years.

Bbbiyihnhui wrote:

Sully, who was also a HS megastar, decided to go the NCAA way because he was planning to have a long career. He felt that going "pro" early May be better for him in the short run, but that he would feel out of place and grow tired of it quickly.

Being part of a team, being around people his age, running against some of the best young runners in the world would be beneficial for him.

Willis had the same thought I believe.

Will Hunter be able to adapt to a new training routine? That's the big question. It didn't work out well for LV, Webb... But did work out well for Sully, Willis, Ches...

Tough call...

Reading 101 wrote:

Sullys PB in the 1500 is from 2001.

peaked in Sydney wrote:

Sully raced for a long time but his worthwhile years ended in 2000. So he had about 2 years.

"Worthwhile" as in looking like he was a potential threat for medals in the future.

In 2001 he had WCs in his home country and did his typical crapped out the back in prelims and never moving up. That was it for him.

peaked in Sydney wrote:

"Worthwhile" as in looking like he was a potential threat for medals in the future.

In 2001 he had WCs in his home country and did his typical crapped out the back in prelims and never moving up. That was it for him.

I'm sorry that Sully's career disappointed you. But he does have a 3:31 PB at 1500m (2000) and 3:50 mile PB (2000), which are still Canadian records. He also still has the outdoor Canadian record over 3000m (2008) and also the indoor 3000m record.

Ok, he never medaled at WC or Olympics. He didn't have the required kick to achieve that. I don't think that he would have gained that kick had he not run in the NCAA. Also, remember that he was racing at the height of the EPO era...

Meanwhile, everybody on the Mary Cain thread is saying it was stupid for her to go pro, and that she should've ran in college. Now, the LRC crowd thinks that the next "great HS phenom" should do the same thing that they say ruined Cain.

Hunter is, relative to Cain, a lot worse coming out of HS. No way Hunter could win a US title (or even a collegiant title) at this point in his career. I see no reason for Hunter to go pro until NCAA competition gets too easy for him. Drew/Tinman/Drew's parents are all about long term, so there's no need to rush Hunter into a professional running enviornment as a teen. IMO, Hunter going to college is the obvious decision.

I think you take every penny you can while its there. Very few people get to become real professionals in this sport. Take the money.

Lucifer's Advocate wrote:

Meanwhile, everybody on the Mary Cain thread is saying it was stupid for her to go pro, and that she should've ran in college. Now, the LRC crowd thinks that the next "great HS phenom" should do the same thing that they say ruined Cain.

Hunter is, relative to Cain, a lot worse coming out of HS. No way Hunter could win a US title (or even a collegiant title) at this point in his career. I see no reason for Hunter to go pro until NCAA competition gets too easy for him. Drew/Tinman/Drew's parents are all about long term, so there's no need to rush Hunter into a professional running enviornment as a teen. IMO, Hunter going to college is the obvious decision.

... or a collegiate title.

Dazed & Confused wrote:

jman1 wrote:

Over the past few decades I can't name but one or two distance athletes in track who ever actually amounted to anything significant after staying in the collegiate system for four full years. I know many of us ran in college and it was great while it lasted, but none of us were in Drew's league. I hate to say it but college running has ruined many more talented athletes than it has helped. Most systems, even Oregon, is a glorified fraternity for runners.

The problem with this post is that the NCAA is the BEST DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM IN THE WORLD FOR TRACK & FIELD. Look at the WC and OG fields and tell me another "system" that sends more athletes to those events. Your post was asinine and reeks of someone who lacks intelligence about track & field as a whole.

No other country in the world has so many runners on all levels (from hobbyjoggers to world class) as America. It´s ridiculous that Americans get beat by Kenyans.

Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:

There are not, despite what Tinman says "15 kids as talented and who could run as fast as Hunter if trained properly" (i.e., by his methods).

But there very likely ARE more than 15 coaches around the country that could have Drew running as well, if not better, than he is right now.

Why not? The best athletes never even dream of running middle or long distance. The truth is we have no idea of the potential of everyone. Thinking that only 1 of 15 super-talented kids decided to one, run middle and long distance and two, actually put in the work does not seem so far-fetched.

Yes, he should definitely do that. Even if Powell tries to work him in gradually they have already agreed the intensity will increase. He should stick with Tinman and turn pro. Oregon will be too competitive, you don't want to compete in training, not good. He will likely end up OK at Oregon but I very much think he will turn out better sticking with Tinman. And Tinman needs to start getting more international recognition and $$$ for advising/coaching. Tinman said he doesn't think he can get a D1 coaching job because he didn't compete at that level in college. I say the hell with being a D1 coach - Tinman can set up a training center and do things his way and he'll get athletes from all over the world paying to train with him.