ventolin^3 wrote:
now tell us what a 1'41.2 run off 23.0 / 48.3 couda been off 24-low/49-low ?
Pacing yourself correctly is part of the sport. It is part of the challenge and the skill. You don't get extra credit for failing to perform the skill correctly.
jjjjj wrote:One virtue of the 800m is that you can race it hard frequently, unlike, say, the 10000m
eh ?
peak career shape is peak career shape
it is realised more in retrospect when guy had small window of opportunity to smash the record
so if Kipketer, for example, could run 1:41.24 off of 23/48.3, then why didn't he go after that 1:40 subsequently?
because he was already damn tired by athens-'97 with 3 successive races then 1 day break before solo 1'43+ win & probably finished but went to zurich just 5 days later with no proper resting/recovery from gold & ran incredible !!!
he has stated he was not recovered for monaco with 52.0 / 50.7 !!! just 3 days later
then a 1'42.2 in brussels few days later & then absurdly, just 44 hours later in brutal 89F he split still too damn quick opener :
23.8 - 25.5 (49.3) - 25.3 (1:14.6) - 26.5 (1:41.1)
if he had no pesky wc to run & couda planned his wr assault fully rested & targeted 1 of zurich or monaco or brussels or koln for the peak effort & got weather/smooth pacing to bell/etc, the WR wouda been
~ 1'40-low
It doesn't matter what the meet is, only whether the distance and time are measured correctly
nonsense
at elite level it has to be a "known" meet/track with fully auto-timing
All the hand timers got in the vicinity of 1:41.6-7 for Seb Coe's 800m at Firenze
what is this rubbish ?
unknown meet - what berlin/brussels/eugene/london/oslo/stockholm/zurich was it in '81 ?
as for HT : get a clue : olizarenko's 1'54.85 in '80 had HT including 1'54.5 & 1'54.6 !!!
the HTs were upto 0.35+s out !!!
utter nonsense to claim validity of 800 HTs
And ultimately, you don't get to brag about having stupidly run extra or gone out too fast and run something that would convert to a lot faster
nonsense
if you have seen the races live on satellite or on youtube you re-assess them & offer "corrected" for "control" of "ideal" fully rested 800 paced smoothly to bell in 0 wind/etc
So, guys like Souleiman and Kiprop are going to have to go after the clock in the 800m if they want anyone to think they are 1:41 guys
laughable
monaco 800 was wild !
souly went for it, got nothing of worth for drafting, ran an incredible ~ 8.5m extra on bends & was worth
~ 1'41.5
that day in "perfect route-1 paced-to-bell" effort
Asbel is a superior athlete to souly
As for Brazier, you can't watch him run without thinking a bit about Rudisha (then again, I probably said this about Charles Jock a few years ago as well). Who knows whether Francique and Henry are the guys to bring out his potential? But we simply have not seen an American 800m talent like this as a junior since Jim Ryun
Ryun's are big shoes
Earl Jones at 19y ran outdoor 1'43.7 solo to win '84 trials after rounds on successive days off stoopidly quick opening 200
he was probably worth 1'42-mid in it if a fully rested 1-off, smoothly paced to bell run :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djbGrI9C7JQPangolin wrote:
My biggest concern is that the drastic reduction in mileage has produced an early peak that will fizzle out in the months or years to come. Time will tell.
How different is his training from other top 800 guys? Symmonds, for example, or anyone else from history?
He claims he has good natural endurance, but he was running cross in high school, so he must have been putting in some mileage. What happens in a couple years when that base is no longer there?
Mr. Obvious wrote:
ventolin^3 wrote:
now tell us what a 1'41.2 run off 23.0 / 48.3 couda been off 24-low/49-low ?
Pacing yourself correctly is part of the sport
utterly clueless
the pacer was supposed to go off in 24-low
he instead charged off like a berserk rhino in 22.9 !!!
do you have no clue about watching this race live at the time on satellite ?
It is part of the challenge and the skill
inept
no
it is not
you are paid to go thru in 24-low
you DO NOT go thru in 22.9 !!!
have you no clue about professionalism ?
You don't get extra credit for failing to perform the skill correctly
utterly clueless
you have no clue about this race as a grown-up back then watching it live on satellite
ovett as co-commentator was utterly shocked !!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOS3RQU92Z4He just split 2:56 on his 1200 leg and got beat by a kid from OKState
ventolin^3 wrote:
marlon harewood wrote:800m all-time list is not nonsenseactually
it is
i've seen all < 1'42s & most of the < 1'43s live on tv/satellite on same day or some highlights next available broadcast few days later
the 800 has has some appalling performances on all-time list
Well, now I've heard it all.
Damn ches split a 3:55, pretty good this early
dfdf wrote:
http://flashresults.com/2016_Meets/Indoor/01-29_RazorbackInvite/030-1-01.htmHe just split 2:56 on his 1200 leg and got beat by a kid from OKState
The most interesting result is Burcham ran 3:58
crete wrote:
dfdf wrote:http://flashresults.com/2016_Meets/Indoor/01-29_RazorbackInvite/030-1-01.htmHe just split 2:56 on his 1200 leg and got beat by a kid from OKState
The most interesting result is Burcham ran 3:58
Was just going to point that out too. Nice.
Every time he posts, I just look for his list of insults such as:
Clueless
Drivel
Idiot
Dumb dumb
Retard
Moronic
Stupid
Weak
Keep up the great work!
Similar to the slurs lunched by a regular on LRC under a different name.
Berian opened in almost the same excat time, and has already run 1:43 outdoors. It will be interesting to see how the two fare for this year. 1:42 for Boris and 1:43 for Donavan are not out of the question.
also used by wrote:
Similar to the slurs lunched by a regular on LRC under a different name.
Who are you talking about? Just about everyone hurls insults especially on politics, religion, global warming. Did you see the flat earth thread? It's a war over there. Ventolin just does his insults in a unique way, he stacks them vertically.
ventolin^3 wrote:
blah
blah
blah
tl;dr
ventolin^3 wrote:
i've seen all < 1'42s & most of the < 1'43s live on tv/satellite on same day or some highlights next available broadcast few days later
the 800 has has some appalling performances on all-time list
WHAT?
very interesting
now tell us what a 1'41.2 run off 23.0 / 48.3 couda been off 24-low/49-low ?
or what a 1'40.91 couda been if no pesky rounds, no 23,4 opener, but fully rested with a pacer smoothly drafting for 24-low / 49-low ?
NO-ONE CAN SAY, IT IS AN IMAGINARY SITUATION. THAT IS MY POINT. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN OBJECTIVE "INTRINSIC VALUE" TO A RUN.
in a "perfect", smoothly-paced-to-bell 800 outdoors, imo he is in ~ 1'42.8 / 1'42.9 shape now
that is what benefit of seeing lotta races over last 40+y offers
He's three seconds off this and you have no idea what he's been doing in training. You're just having a guess based on his lovely form and where he sits on the all time list. But it doesn't work like that; for one thing, there is clearly more of a focus on these indoor meets for a US college athlete than for a Kenyan professional.
learn to read
go ask johnny what shape he was in zurich-'88
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAcpMcUR-1Mif he says ~ 1'41-high if he'd been smoothly paced to bell, he is not lying but making a very genuine claim
he had good shot of 800WR that day
he was without doubt top-3 all-time synthetic track 800 guy at the time & probably still in top-10 upto today if others had run their best
to think he is only "worth" number 16 today all-time on that zurich run is laughable !
if all you think is that he was worth 1'42.5 at his best, then you have no clue about 800
I was agreeing with you that Johnny Gray was fast. No idea what point you're making here.
if "real world" is your only crutch, then stick to looking at all-time list & don't bother posting here as intrinsic merit is beyond you
Peak Ventolin. I'm not allowed to argue from a position in the real world.
[malmo] is seldom wrong but even he probably thinks he was worth lot quicker than his PBs if given ideal paced raced to 2k in a 3k SC, in ideal conditions, etc
i certainly do
"Worth" quicker than his PBs is a worthless proposition.
can't you comprehend basic concept of :
fully rested run in 0 wind at temperate F, smoothly paced to cut-off point, be it : bell for 800 or 1500, 2k for a 3k, 3k for a 5k ?
Never happens. Irrelevant.
his solo-1'45.9i in that manner with too quick opening 200/varying next 3 splits, is worth an ~ 1'42.8 / 1'42.9 outdoors in a perfect race, smoothly paced to bell
No.
if you don't think ~ 1'42.8 / 1'42.9 is not a world beating performance, then you have no clue about 800
I do. It obviously is. He ran 3 seconds slower than this though you mad man.
david who ?
Come on now. David Sharpe, GB 800m runner, 1:45 junior, world junior champion, European indoor champ at 20, predicted by Peter Coe to become world's best. Never kicked on for various reasons and ended with a best of 1:43.98. Not bad by any means, but obviously less than might've been hoped for.
Anyone know if he is running the 800m at Razorback invitational? Women's 800 is next followed by the men on SEC network.
ventolin^3 wrote:
Mr. Obvious wrote:ventolin^3 wrote:
now tell us what a 1'41.2 run off 23.0 / 48.3 couda been off 24-low/49-low ?
Pacing yourself correctly is part of the sport
utterly clueless
the pacer was supposed to go off in 24-low
he instead charged off like a berserk rhino in 22.9 !!!
do you have no clue about watching this race live at the time on satellite ?
It is part of the challenge and the skill
inept
no
it is not
you are paid to go thru in 24-low
you DO NOT go thru in 22.9 !!!
have you no clue about professionalism ?
You don't get extra credit for failing to perform the skill correctly
utterly clueless
you have no clue about this race as a grown-up back then watching it live on satellite
ovett as co-commentator was utterly shocked !!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOS3RQU92Z4
Nope. Pacing yourself is part of the sport. If you do it poorly, you don't get extra credit for that.
Mr. Obvious wrote:Nope. Pacing yourself is part of the sport. If you do it poorly, you don't get extra credit for that.
how clueless are you ???
you follow the pacer as close as possible in order to get a drafting advantage
did you not even understand this basic premise of racing ??
you do not expect the pacer to charge thru in 22.9 !!!
Kip expressed lot of anger at the pacing after that race
what was Kip supposed to do ???
lasso the pacer at 100m to pull him back to 24-low pace at 200 ???!!!
Accra wrote:
ironside wrote:just me: give some context. Are you a sibling/Texas A &M Coach/Texas A & M teammate of Brazier? If you are simply looking at varsity results for Texas A & M XC fall 2015, check JV results before you go out on a limb and state he didn't run XC, 2015. Because Brazier may or may not have run XC as a freshman doesn't mean Texas A & M will not have Brazier run XC in future seasons. I cannot image Texas A&M has enough good (8 & 10)K XC men so they do not need a sub-4:07 miler on the XC team.
Dude, the article stated he specifically chose Texas A&M so that he would not need to run cross country. We also know he ran a 600m time trial in November which was obviously not for cross country. You have no idea what you're talking about and aren't even reading what's right in front of you.
Going to A&M might be the best decision he ever made. I have seem a lot of talented 400/800 types who happen to be good miler and decent XC runner, ruined by having to run 'big time' XC. Big time meaning expected to score on team chasing conference and NCAA bids. A true 400/800 athlete needs at least a week to fully recover from an 8K XC race and a competitive 10K race will be in their legs for weeks.
Looks like he's entered in the 800 tomorrow, same place.
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