I think it's just as fair to ask why I don't believe. Also from previous encounters it's generally due to the fact they have a book about this God. There is also a book about Dracula, doesn't make him real.
I think it's just as fair to ask why I don't believe. Also from previous encounters it's generally due to the fact they have a book about this God. There is also a book about Dracula, doesn't make him real.
I think it's just as fair to ask why I don't believe. Also from previous encounters it's generally due to the fact they have a book about this God. There is also a book about Dracula, doesn't make him real.
What can I say? wrote:
Sloetry in Motion wrote:While some of these points are accurate, given the many and varying differences in Christian beliefs, trying to paint Christianity as a monolithic set of beliefs is doing nothing but strawmanning. Maybe instead you should ask the Christians in this thread what they actually do believe before going off on your rants.
I think it's just as fair to ask why I don't believe. Also from previous encounters it's generally due to the fact they have a book about this God. There is also a book about Dracula, doesn't make him real.
Yes, it is just as fair to ask why you don't believe.
However, the question that jumps out from this post of yours is "Who are 'they'?"
Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:
What can I say? wrote:I think it's just as fair to ask why I don't believe. Also from previous encounters it's generally due to the fact they have a book about this God. There is also a book about Dracula, doesn't make him real.
Yes, it is just as fair to ask why you don't believe.
However, the question that jumps out from this post of yours is "Who are 'they'?"
Christians. Lived in multiple countries, spoken to people of several beliefs, cultures, backgrounds. Respect them all to varying degrees. Generally my stopping point is when people denounce science in the name of their religion or condemn someone else for theirs. I don't care if you believe in God or Allah or anyone/anything else. I'm just tired of people shunting religion because of a book that was written by people who didn't understand germs and why illness existed.
What can I say? wrote:
Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:Yes, it is just as fair to ask why you don't believe.
However, the question that jumps out from this post of yours is "Who are 'they'?"
Christians. Lived in multiple countries, spoken to people of several beliefs, cultures, backgrounds. Respect them all to varying degrees. Generally my stopping point is when people denounce science in the name of their religion or condemn someone else for theirs. I don't care if you believe in God or Allah or anyone/anything else. I'm just tired of people shunting religion because of a book that was written by people who didn't understand germs and why illness existed.
Sorry I meant shunting science not religion
What can I say? wrote:
Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:Yes, it is just as fair to ask why you don't believe.
However, the question that jumps out from this post of yours is "Who are 'they'?"
Christians. Lived in multiple countries, spoken to people of several beliefs, cultures, backgrounds. Respect them all to varying degrees. Generally my stopping point is when people denounce science in the name of their religion or condemn someone else for theirs. I don't care if you believe in God or Allah or anyone/anything else. I'm just tired of people shunting religion because of a book that was written by people who didn't understand germs and why illness existed.
Got it.
I'm with you on that - most notably highlighted sentence.
Ok, so there is no proof of God and there is no proof he doesn't (since he apparently transcends logic.) That we can agree on.
The problem with Christianity is there is no REASON for God to exist. First of all, Gods were created in the minds of primitive people who needed explanations. The sun, the moon, lightning, fire, all were too overwhelming for the human mind. As human intellect developed, people no longer needed invisible Gods to explain these things since they could understand it themselves. The only thing left to wonder about is the cause of the Big Bang. If you claim God caused this, then what created God? Nothing? Then why did the Universe need a creator?
Second, how can you confidently say that ONLY God exists and not Zeus for example. The Bible's only proof is in itself. There are literally millions of Gods (all of which are invisible, never been credibly seen, don't answer when you talk to them etc.) but yours only is the right one. The Hindus have books that prove themselves just like the Bible.
The only reason people still believe in Gods is because they don't want to go to Hell. Deep, deep inside, you know you are only arguing so God sees and you get Heaven points. You are locking yourself in a box.
The reason I stopped believing in God was when I heard about the way the Bible was put together in Religious Studies. Basically, there were several books written just like all the others except they said Jesus did different things as a young boy. The people forming the Canon decided they didn't like those stories and threw them out. That is literally the only explanation why they aren't in the Bible. That would lead the average five year old to question the credibility of the rest of the books (which contradict each other, promote misogyny, are historically inaccurate, etc etc etc)
The reason I can write so much is because there are so many ways to poke holes in religious arguments. There is no good argument against atheism.
I'd be happy to see a response to my rant
Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:
What can I say? wrote:Christians. Lived in multiple countries, spoken to people of several beliefs, cultures, backgrounds. Respect them all to varying degrees. Generally my stopping point is when people denounce science in the name of their religion or condemn someone else for theirs. I don't care if you believe in God or Allah or anyone/anything else. I'm just tired of people shunting religion because of a book that was written by people who didn't understand germs and why illness existed.
Got it.
I'm with you on that - most notably highlighted sentence.
Like I said, I don't feel negative feelings towards Christians but recently had an argument with a Christian who thought it was impossible for Apes to be related to humans.
Me:Think cats are related to lions?
Them: Of course. They look the same, act the same.
Me: Cats and Lions share 94% of their DNA. Humans and Apes share 98%
Them: I don't get what you mean.
What can I say? wrote:
Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:Got it.
I'm with you on that - most notably highlighted sentence.
Like I said, I don't feel negative feelings towards Christians but recently had an argument with a Christian who thought it was impossible for Apes to be related to humans.
Me:Think cats are related to lions?
Them: Of course. They look the same, act the same.
Me: Cats and Lions share 94% of their DNA. Humans and Apes share 98%
Them: I don't get what you mean.
:-)
Yeah, that's just sad.
Sloetry in Motion wrote:
While some of these points are accurate, given the many and varying differences in Christian beliefs, trying to paint Christianity as a monolithic set of beliefs is doing nothing but strawmanning. Maybe instead you should ask the Christians in this thread what they actually do believe before going off on your rants.
It is very true to say different Christians believe different things. Which means some believe that Mother Theresa is going to hell. Or Martin Luther. Or Moses. Or Gandhi. Well, I suppose "went to hell" is a better description.
"And no, I NEVER shifted the burden of proof."
Actually, you did when you said that I was assuming that God doesn't exist. Since I have no evidence suppose he does, this would be the default position.
Stagger Lee wrote:
"And no, I NEVER shifted the burden of proof."
Actually, you did when you said that I was assuming that God doesn't exist. Since I have no evidence suppose he does, this would be the default position.
INCORRECT.
And your inability to think clearly is wearisome.
Take a logic class. I don't have any more time for you.
Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:
Stagger Lee wrote:"And no, I NEVER shifted the burden of proof."
Actually, you did when you said that I was assuming that God doesn't exist. Since I have no evidence suppose he does, this would be the default position.
INCORRECT.
And your inability to think clearly is wearisome.
Take a logic class. I don't have any more time for you.
CORRECT, actually.
I'm going to let you in on a little life secret: treating people with civility will get you a lot farther in life than perceived intelligence. You sir, are a Class A prick and I have met a few in my time. If your arguments are strong enough you shouldn't need all of the ad hominem attacks and put downs; in all honesty, it doesn't make anyone consider your argument, it just makes you look like an a$$hole. Good luck with your smug and superior existence. Dick.
I am assuming that you are relying on dating methods such as carbon 14. Carbon 14 has a half-life of only 5,730 years. This means an object 5,730 years old should have only half the amount of carbon 14 in ratio to carbon 12 as a new object. It is more reliable when used on things that were once living. Take a look at Mt St Helens. It erupted in 1980, and carbon 14 dating showed these 'new volcanic rocks" as hundreds of thousands to millions of years old!
Contrary to evolutionary belief, the age of the fossils is not determined by radiometric dating. Fossils of animals, for example, are formed when animals are buried quickly and under tremendous pressure, so that their bones, remains, and imprint are preserved in rock. If living things are not buried quickly and under enormous pressure their remains will decay rather than become preserved or fossilized. Evolution assumes that fossil strata was formed over hundreds of millions of years.
You mean ark. Perhaps the animals were all young and in the infant stage, perhaps they were put into hibernation during their time on the ark. Assuming all marine life stayed in the water. Just some theories on my part.
4) Shows up in the middle east, literally least educated part of the world at that time. China and Egypt have the ability to do math, read, write, why not show up there [/quote]
Huh? Noah's family repopulated the world after they got off the ark. There was no civilization. It was wiped out, except for the 8 people on the ark: Noah, his wife, sons Shem, Ham and Japeth and their wives. .
Noah and his sons were commanded by God to multiply and replenish the whole earth. Two articles that discuss genetics:
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/did-we-all-come-from-noahs-sons/reation.com/noah-and-genetics
History shows than man either refused to obey God, create their own gods/idols or reject that there is a God.
One of the men who was crucified along with Christ asked, "remember me when You come into Your kingdom.†And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.†Luke 23:42,43
The Apostle Paul before he became a Christian (Saul of Tarsus) was a Pharisee who despised and persecuted Christians and is believed to have attended the execution of Steven. He also had blood on has hands, but was forgiven by accepting the Lord. It is very clear in the Bible that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ. Good works alone is not enough. As for Ted Bundy, sure he was evil and all Christians will have to account for their actions at the Judgement Seat of Christ. Read more about it here
http://www.gty.org/resources/questions/QA97/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-judgement-seat-of-christThis has been covered earlier in the thread.
Isn't that a Neil deGrasse Tyson quote? I guess he dropped the mic....
You are asking for the meaning of life. As we grow older, we realize the value in considering the interests of others over ourselves. For the Christian, our purpose is to glorify God, the reason we are here is for God's glory. There are those who will not like this. There are those who will deny that God has made us. When we do what we think is right in our own eyes, we often make mistakes, especially when we deny God.
As a christian I prefer to see how I live my life in a way that is consistent with the teachings of Jesus. I never judge how others live their lives. To each their own is my philosophy. However, if someone were to ask me about my faith in the Lord and would like to learn more about it, then I will share what I know.
Correction: Judgment Seat of Christ
Huh? Noah's family repopulated the world after they got off the ark. There was no civilization. It was wiped out, except for the 8 people on the ark: Noah, his wife, sons Shem, Ham and Japeth and their wives. .
I'm talking about God. Civilization was not wiped out in any means. During this supposed time of the extinction of mankind, the first surgeries were being performed in Egypt.
Noah and his sons were commanded by God to multiply and replenish the whole earth. Two articles that discuss genetics:
https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/did-we-all-come-from-noahs-sons/reation.com/noah-and-genetics
History shows than man either refused to obey God, create their own gods/idols or reject that there is a God.
Didn't Christians create there own God? Didn't every religion? What in all honesty makes you believe your God exists or that he/she is the only one?
Avoided this one?
One of the men who was crucified along with Christ asked, "remember me when You come into Your kingdom.†And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.†Luke 23:42,43
The Apostle Paul before he became a Christian (Saul of Tarsus) was a Pharisee who despised and persecuted Christians and is believed to have attended the execution of Steven. He also had blood on has hands, but was forgiven by accepting the Lord. It is very clear in the Bible that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ. Good works alone is not enough. As for Ted Bundy, sure he was evil and all Christians will have to account for their actions at the Judgement Seat of Christ. Read more about it here
http://www.gty.org/resources/questions/QA97/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-judgement-seat-of-christSo what about Gates? Didn't a none believer do something that your creator couldn't/wouldn't? How was he able to get through Gods almighty plan? Your God is so conceded that a man does everything in his power to save the world but doesn't acknowledge his existence so he is sentenced to hell? Doesn't this make your God look a little defeated and a little like a high school kid wanting everyone to like them? Can't look over one detail for the greater body of work?
This has been covered earlier in the thread.
Isn't that a Neil deGrasse Tyson quote? I guess he dropped the mic....
And you quoted the bible, whats your point?
You are asking for the meaning of life. As we grow older, we realize the value in considering the interests of others over ourselves. For the Christian, our purpose is to glorify God, the reason we are here is for God's glory. There are those who will not like this. There are those who will deny that God has made us. When we do what we think is right in our own eyes, we often make mistakes, especially when we deny God.
I'm all for believing in whatever you want. Why denounce science though? Christians once burned a man alive because he declared there were more moons and suns than just ours.
As a christian I prefer to see how I live my life in a way that is consistent with the teachings of Jesus. I never judge how others live their lives. To each their own is my philosophy. However, if someone were to ask me about my faith in the Lord and would like to learn more about it, then I will share what I know.[/quote]
If you were truly for that philosophy than you wouldn't be trying to correct me. I truly want to know what makes you believe in your God. A man who was responsible for numerous tragedies and the death to millions. Who never spread his word to millions of people. So are they in fact doomed because he never made an effort to let them know that they had further options? What about infants who die in womb? Children born with drug addictions because of their parents? I genuinely want to know how you remain faithful in a world that has continually through no fault of it's own disproved so many beliefs of Christians while your God stands there and watches the world burn.
Bible and slavery wrote:
History shows than man either refused to obey God, create their own gods/idols or reject that there is a God.
So close to the truth. Lets pare things down a bit.
"History shows than men create their own gods/idols."
You know this is true with every other religion, but can't see that it holds true for your own.
[q]If you were truly for that philosophy than you wouldn't be trying to correct me. I truly want to know what makes you believe in your God. A man who was responsible for numerous tragedies and the death to millions. Who never spread his word to millions of people. So are they in fact doomed because he never made an effort to let them know that they had further options? What about infants who die in womb? Children born with drug addictions because of their parents? I genuinely want to know how you remain faithful in a world that has continually through no fault of it's own disproved so many beliefs of Christians while your God stands there and watches the world burn.
[/q]
These are all great questions. The issue here is a complete difference of worldview.
One person sees only what is in front of them; they see nothing beyond physical death. This would indeed give that person a negative view of God. How could a loving God let all of these bad things happen?
The other person sees a paradise after physical death. He understands that this physical world is finite, and that the trials here on earth are simply trivial compared to the splendor of heaven. Much like a child once thought his entire reality was confined to his neighborhood, the unbeliever is convinced that his entire reality is restricted to this physical life.
To summarize: With a belief in god and the afterlife, there is no atrocity that can't be reconciled or justified.
thejeff wrote:
These are all great questions. The issue here is a complete difference of worldview.
One person sees only what is in front of them; they see nothing beyond physical death. This would indeed give that person a negative view of God. How could a loving God let all of these bad things happen?
The other person sees a paradise after physical death. He understands that this physical world is finite, and that the trials here on earth are simply trivial compared to the splendor of heaven. Much like a child once thought his entire reality was confined to his neighborhood, the unbeliever is convinced that his entire reality is restricted to this physical life.
But you only go to Heaven if you *believe* that Jesus is your savior. So, tough luck for those little ones!