Remember when "atheist" had a negative connotation?

After thinking about it, it seems there is a difference between the person like thejeff (or Job) who would murder their children on god's request, as opposed to the mothers who have murdered their children.

In the first case, the act is pure selfishness. In the later case, you could argue that the parents are thinking of the "best interest" (from a strictly religious perspective) of the children.

http://awkwardmomentsbible.com/pastors-wife-murder-children-for-jesus/

Bible and slavery wrote:

.. Once you die, your destiny is set for eternity.

This reminds me of another question.

Jesus supposedly went to hell for a weekend to pay for all of man-kinds sins.

Why did he get a get out of hell free card? If Jesus gave any kind of true sacrifice, he would remain down there burning for all eternity like the rest of us.

.

Bible and slavery wrote:

Once you die, your destiny is set for eternity.

Yes. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Matter is just recycled.

Bible and slavery wrote:

Which WAS the practice in those days, sure. Let's talk about today. The radical fundamentalist Islamists are doing a lot of stoning, throwing gays off roofs (that would make you a target, right?) and public executions are the norm in Saudi Arabia, just saying.

So, it's OK one day, but not the next? I thought you folks were all about absolutes and so on? Is that not the case?

When exactly was it OK to stone someone to death?

FWIW, islamists are theists. And all the atrocities they engage are the exact same horsesh** the Xians faithfully engaged and preached for years. Some still do.

You're right, I'd be a target under Islamic rule. Just as I would if we let the Xian institutions run the show here.

FWIW ... I've been a target, here in the US and Australia. You really wanna talk about that? But you're essentially suggesting that because I haven't been thrown off a roof, you're somehow to be proud of your ilk? That's pretty fu**ed up.

How about we stick to the abuse gay people in this country HAVE endured? All of which is fostered by your faith.

one simple example

The destruction of the people native to this land. South Americans? The slave trade here. You've a lot to be proud of.

Bible and slavery wrote:

... Once you die, your destiny is set for eternity.

Once you die? I thought you folks were saying it's all preordained anyway?

Forgive me for interjecting... I have been lurking, but just too busy to chime in :-)

If it means anything to you, the thought of killing my own son is, in your words, appalling. I cannot imagine much of anything worse, and I really don't care to try. When we read through that story together, I almost cry. Every time. I cannot imagine having to do something like that.

When I said I would do it (and I would), I am not talking about some voice in my head, or some vision in a dream. I am talking about being fully conscious, and God, I dunno, splitting open rocks and appearing to me, backed by a blinding light or something, booming voice that would shame any Dolby system... maybe like when Galadriel shows herself to Frodo, times about a thousand. My point was, yes, if freakin God actually freakin revealed himself to me, you, or anyone else, you would do whatever he freakin said, because there would be no doubt that it would turn out awesome in the end.

If you ever hear me (or anyone else) talking about killing someone because a voice in their head told them to and they think it was God, you should call the authorities immediately. (They are probably crazy... and if it IS God, you calling the authorities won't make much of a difference, lol)

Carry on.

So the way to tell between a faithful Christian and a lunatic is that one will say god appeared to them from a split rock and told them to kill their child while the other will say that god just spoke to them and told them to kill their child. Gotcha. I'd still think that you're both just crazy.

The point isn't how you are told to kill your child. The point is that if god or anyone or anything else tells you to kill your child, the correct answer is NO. It's a realitively easy scenario.

thejeff wrote:

If you ever hear me (or anyone else) talking about killing someone because a voice in their head told them to and they think it was God, you should call the authorities immediately. (They are probably crazy... and if it IS God, you calling the authorities won't make much of a difference, lol)

Carry on.

Jeff,

I'm not going to belabor the point, because both sides have made their points on this issue. I do have a question though: how would you know it is your God that has appeared to you, and not some other god?

The point isn't how to deal with someone who claims that God told them to kill a child. The point is that if/when God reveals himself to YOU, will will have zero doubts. None.

Stagger Lee wrote:

thejeff wrote:

If you ever hear me (or anyone else) talking about killing someone because a voice in their head told them to and they think it was God, you should call the authorities immediately. (They are probably crazy... and if it IS God, you calling the authorities won't make much of a difference, lol)

Carry on.

Jeff,

I'm not going to belabor the point, because both sides have made their points on this issue. I do have a question though: how would you know it is your God that has appeared to you, and not some other god?

Do you believe there are multiple gods? I only believe there is one.

thejeff wrote:

Sloetry in Motion wrote:

So the way to tell between a faithful Christian and a lunatic is that one will say god appeared to them from a split rock and told them to kill their child while the other will say that god just spoke to them and told them to kill their child. Gotcha. I'd still think that you're both just crazy.

The point isn't how you are told to kill your child. The point is that if god or anyone or anything else tells you to kill your child, the correct answer is NO. It's a realitively easy scenario.

The point isn't how to deal with someone who claims that God told them to kill a child. The point is that if/when God reveals himself to YOU, YOU will have zero doubts. None.

The problem of course is the notion that YOU having zero doubts should be considered sufficient evidence. To suggest that it should is to claim personal infallibility - not the infallibility of God, the infallibility of YOU.

So please explain to me what god is that you think it exists? I've heard your argument before many times and I'm not one bit convinced. The god of the Apaches? The god of the Aztecs? Or the god of the Maori? You can't possible think the god of the torah/bible/koran is real?

thejeff wrote:

Stagger Lee wrote:

Jeff,

I'm not going to belabor the point, because both sides have made their points on this issue. I do have a question though: how would you know it is your God that has appeared to you, and not some other god?

Do you believe there are multiple gods? I only believe there is one.

You obviously know the answer to that. Let me frame it a different way: if there is only one god, how do you know it is Yahweh that appeared to you and not, say, Mithras, Zeus, Thor, Zoroaster, Isis, Osiris, Baal, Odin, Baphomet, Hercules, Shiva, Kali, Vishnu, Brahma, Buddha, Ra, Horus....?

Stagger Lee wrote:

thejeff wrote:

Do you believe there are multiple gods? I only believe there is one.

You obviously know the answer to that. Let me frame it a different way: if there is only one god, how do you know it is Yahweh that appeared to you and not, say, Mithras, Zeus, Thor, Zoroaster, Isis, Osiris, Baal, Odin, Baphomet, Hercules, Shiva, Kali, Vishnu, Brahma, Buddha, Ra, Horus....?

lol

I don't guess I know. Maybe he would tell me when we talk?

Me: Hi, God.

God: Please, my friends call me Odin.

Me: Are you sh!ttin' me?!

PS- Buddha never claimed to be a god ;-)

So basically jeff has no idea of the way God would present Himself.. What if He doesn't actually like grand entrances and does just manifest as a voice in your head?

I could set off a nuclear bomb and encircle your house with a public address system cranked to the max and dazzle you while roaring "kill your son!" but that doesn't mean God is here.

staring at fukushima wrote:

So basically jeff has no idea of the way God would present Himself.. What if He doesn't actually like grand entrances and does just manifest as a voice in your head?

I could set off a nuclear bomb and encircle your house with a public address system cranked to the max and dazzle you while roaring "kill your son!" but that doesn't mean God is here.

Let me know how that goes.

thejeff wrote:

Stagger Lee wrote:

You obviously know the answer to that. Let me frame it a different way: if there is only one god, how do you know it is Yahweh that appeared to you and not, say, Mithras, Zeus, Thor, Zoroaster, Isis, Osiris, Baal, Odin, Baphomet, Hercules, Shiva, Kali, Vishnu, Brahma, Buddha, Ra, Horus....?

lol

I don't guess I know. Maybe he would tell me when we talk?

Me: Hi, God.

God: Please, my friends call me Odin.

Me: Are you sh!ttin' me?!

PS- Buddha never claimed to be a god ;-)

You've kind of side-stepped the question. Also, it doesn't matter whether Buddha claimed to be God or not, people still worship him. Jesus didn't claim to be divine in the synoptic Gospels, yet people worship him too.

Stagger Lee wrote:

thejeff wrote:

lol

I don't guess I know. Maybe he would tell me when we talk?

Me: Hi, God.

God: Please, my friends call me Odin.

Me: Are you sh!ttin' me?!

PS- Buddha never claimed to be a god ;-)

You've kind of side-stepped the question. Also, it doesn't matter whether Buddha claimed to be God or not, people still worship him. Jesus didn't claim to be divine in the synoptic Gospels, yet people worship him too.

Yes He did claim to be divine in Mat-Luk. We discussed this several pages ago with our Muslim buddy...

And I did not side step the question. I don't exactly know, but if he took the time to appear to me, I imagine he would identify himself :-)

smh