Remember when "atheist" had a negative connotation?

A different topic here:

Easter is not too far off (it's in late March again this year, just two months away). An interesting exercise can be to ask your local Christian just what happened on Easter and afterward.

Former preacher Dan Barker examines the question in detail:

https://ffrf.org/legacy/books/lfif/?t=stone

Bear in mind that Easter--the resurrection and subsequent happenings--is the fundamental event of Christianity.

FFRF wrote:

A different topic here:

Easter is not too far off (it's in late March again this year, just two months away). An interesting exercise can be to ask your local Christian just what happened on Easter and afterward.

Former preacher Dan Barker examines the question in detail:

https://ffrf.org/legacy/books/lfif/?t=stone

Bear in mind that Easter--the resurrection and subsequent happenings--is the fundamental event of Christianity.

Non-Atheist wrote:

It absolutely is a choice. That's why it's called "faith." You choose whether or not to believe in something that cannot be proven.

Clearly one cannot choose what one believes. One can choose to pretend to believe. One can wish that one believed. One can choose to entertain the possibility that something could possibly be true. But the notion that one can choose to believe something or not is patently absurd.

So you claim that you have never done anything that has violated your conscience? That is the means by which we are all aware of our sin.

The “Easter Answer” Answered

https://ffrf.org/legacy/about/bybarker/EasterAnswer.pdf

Stephen R. Kingsley's The Easter Answer, Is No Answer At All.

http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2009/04/stephen-r-kingsleys-easter-answer-is-no.html

Sloetry in Motion wrote:

So let's pick a person that you already believe exists: Barack Obama. Could you make yourself believe that he doesn't exist by willpower alone?

I could choose to say he doesn't exit by my willpower, but I would be consciously lying.

truely millennial wrote:

Sloetry in Motion wrote:

So let's pick a person that you already believe exists: Barack Obama. Could you make yourself believe that he doesn't exist by willpower alone?

I could choose to say he doesn't exit by my willpower, but I would be consciously lying.

Doesn't take a whole lot of willpower.

Watch this - The earth does not exist. DANG, I've got some serious willpower!

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

truely millennial wrote:

So when people say the existence of creation doesn't prove that God exits, they do indeed know that God exists but they are denying that they know this. This is because they don't want him to exist because they don't want to be judged for the sin that they love.

ANYONE who claims to know what other people think or what other people know is a LIAR.

Just thought you should know.

True for human words alone, but when I am merely repeating God's word which does not lie then I am correct because I stand upon God's word. You come back calling me a liar because you yourself are a liar. You know that God is because of what has been made and your conscience convicts you of your sin, but you do not want to give up practicing your sin so you call the truth that you know a lie. And by the way, Jesus is excellent at saving liars.

I can't prove anything more about God's existence anymore than what he has already revealed to you. You seek the truth through your intellect, but if the truth cannot be found but through faith, then how can you expect to find it?

Like Jesus says in Mathew 13:

You will be ever hearing but never understanding;

you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

For this people’s heart has become calloused;

they hardly hear with their ears,

and they have closed their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes,

hear with their ears,

understand with their hearts

and turn, and I would heal them.

If knowing the truth really is preceeded by faith, then how can you expect to find it elsewhere?

truely millennial wrote:

Sloetry in Motion wrote:

So let's pick a person that you already believe exists: Barack Obama. Could you make yourself believe that he doesn't exist by willpower alone?

I could choose to say he doesn't exit by my willpower, but I would be consciously lying.

That wasn't an answer to the question I asked. Care to try again?

Sloetry in Motion wrote:

truely millennial wrote:

I could choose to say he doesn't exit by my willpower, but I would be consciously lying.

That wasn't an answer to the question I asked. Care to try again?

Maybe I still don't understand the intent of your question... No, i don't think it is possible to TRULY believe what you know to be true to be a not true. You can say whatever you want though.

truely millennial wrote:

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

ANYONE who claims to know what other people think or what other people know is a LIAR.

Just thought you should know.

True for human words alone, but when I am merely repeating God's word which does not lie then I am correct because I stand upon God's word. You come back calling me a liar because you yourself are a liar. You know that God is because of what has been made and your conscience convicts you of your sin, but you do not want to give up practicing your sin so you call the truth that you know a lie. And by the way, Jesus is excellent at saving liars.

It's very arrogant on your part to tell someone what they know and what they believe. You don't know what anyone else believes. Quit telling us that we believe but are rejecting that belief. I, for one, don't believe. Not even a little bit. Not at all.

What if I said, "You know truely millenial, why don't you quit going on about God. C'mon DEEP DOWN you KNOW he doesn't really exist. Any moron can see that, and if you keep doing so you are LYING to yourself and you know it. Quit rejecting the truth." That would be an unfounded accusation and just a littttle bit self-righteous.

Your Bart Ehrman quotes are just flat out stupid. No scholar in the Western World, huh. That's just flat out stupid.

There was no Paul or Peter or Jesus. The best source of information is obviously the Jews. Jesus was a Jew you know. There is zero independent documentation of Jesus.

truely millennial wrote:

Sloetry in Motion wrote:

That wasn't an answer to the question I asked. Care to try again?

Maybe I still don't understand the intent of your question... No, i don't think it is possible to TRULY believe what you know to be true to be a not true. You can say whatever you want though.

The point is that you don't choose to believe someone or something exists or doesn't. It's a result of the facts you have been exposed to. But it also shows that you can be in essence forced to believe something exists without having your free will infringed upon.

So here's the problem:

God wants everyone to believe he exists.

God can make us believes he exists without infringing our free will.

God has the power and knowledge to know how to make us believe he exists.

Then why do twice as many people not believe in the existence of the Christian god than do believe? God has the power and desire for something to happen, then why doesn't it happen? Hell, more people believe in the existence of Barack Obama than believe in the existence of your god.

Stagger Lee wrote:

It's very arrogant on your part to tell someone what they know and what they believe. You don't know what anyone else believes. Quit telling us that we believe but are rejecting that belief. I, for one, don't believe. Not even a little bit. Not at all.

What if I said, "You know truely millenial, why don't you quit going on about God. C'mon DEEP DOWN you KNOW he doesn't really exist. Any moron can see that, and if you keep doing so you are LYING to yourself and you know it. Quit rejecting the truth." That would be an unfounded accusation and just a littttle bit self-righteous.

You do not stand upon God's word when you say that though. We can go back and forth with it, but only thing can actually be the truth, right? And where you choose to place your trust is a big deal is it not? I choose Jesus because deep down I know that he is true. I am tempted with sin just as everyone else is, but one thing I am absolutely sure of is that Jesus is Lord. You could not get that out of me by any means of threat or torture because it is God himself who is the author and sustainer of my faith and he completes the work that he starts.

truely millennial wrote:

Like Jesus says in Mathew 13:

You will be ever hearing but never understanding;

you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

For this people’s heart has become calloused;

they hardly hear with their ears,

and they have closed their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes,

hear with their ears,

understand with their hearts

and turn, and I would heal them.

If knowing the truth really is preceeded by faith, then how can you expect to find it elsewhere?

Not a word of that makes any sense. "Truth preceded by faith"? What exactly are you talking about? Faith has nothing to do with truth. Faith is what is fallen back upon when a person runs out of evidence. If there is evidence for example that, "Jim's shirt is blue," I don't need to have faith about Jim's shirt: I can look at his shirt and, through the sense data I've received (empiricism), confirm that his shirt is indeed blue.

Now if Jim was a formless, omnipotent, omniscient being, that was outside of time and space and couldn't be apprehended or understand in any way by our meager sub-standard brains, and somebody *wrote down* that Jim's shirt was blue and I believed him....well, that would be taking it on faith. However, what would the "truth" really be about Jim's shirt? It would be unknowable since the writer would have to rely on what Jim said, or what the writer at least *thought* Jim told him.

That being said, the whole episode can be rejected because a)intelligence is an effect of matter (the brain), so intelligence without matter is logically impossible, and b)we have no evidence (sense data) to suppose the incident occurred. So no, "truth is not preceded by faith."

"You seek the truth through your intellect." Guilty as charged. Reason and evidence is the only way to apprehend truth. You can't "feel" truth.

That's great. If that works for you, fantastic. Don't say you "know" though, because you don't. You believe. To know one must have evidence beyond what bounces around inside their head.

I don't know and that is ok. I'm glad that God made th

Well Jesus did say that the way is narrow and there are few who find it, that the prince of this world is Satan. That explains the numbers.

As to all the "why God's"? I don't know. But I am glad that God made the truth simple enough for a child to understand: "I love you, trust me."

truely millennial wrote:

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

ANYONE who claims to know what other people think or what other people know is a LIAR.

Just thought you should know.

True for human words alone, but when I am merely repeating God's word which does not lie then I am correct because I stand upon God's word. You come back calling me a liar because you yourself are a liar. You know that God is because of what has been made and your conscience convicts you of your sin, but you do not want to give up practicing your sin so you call the truth that you know a lie. And by the way, Jesus is excellent at saving liars.

OK, so you are an ARROGANT LIAR. Upped the stakes just a little bit.

I wonder if you are even aware that you are making "believers" look really, really bad by your arrogance and dishonesty.

Of course, I know that you have no legitimate claim to speak for anybody other than yourself. As such, I don't paint believers in general with your own arrogance and dishonesty. Still, there may be others who are a bit quicker to judge a group by one of its members so you may want to give some thought to your words before choosing to post them.