Gladly :-)
I should not have put quotations around "conditions of answered prayer", but I had numbers 4-8 in mind... apologies :-)
Gladly :-)
I should not have put quotations around "conditions of answered prayer", but I had numbers 4-8 in mind... apologies :-)
Sloetry in Motion wrote:
thejeff wrote:Do I think that? No. But, I rarely have all the facts, either. Were these, possibly, the younger versions of Hitler, Attila, Dahmer, and bin Laden? If only I were omniscient...
So the slaugter of children is justified if they would grow up to be a mass murder? Do you think all of the children that god commanded to be murdered fell into that category or were there children who's murders were unjustified and therefore immoral?
I didn't say I think the slaughter of children is justified. I actually said I do NOT think that it is. I did, however, try to imagine a circumstance in which it COULD be justified. It is still hard to stomach, tbh. Glad those decisions aren't up to me :-)
But really, this is getting off on a whole new rabbit trail (that is partially my fault). Could YOU pull the trigger and assassinate Hitler in 1943? I could? How about 1939? I probably could. How about 1919? Hmm, getting tougher... How about April 30th, 1889, when he was 10 days old? At what point are you glad that you aren't the one who has to make those kinds of decisions?
Left Said Fred wrote:
Sloetry in Motion wrote:So the slaugter of children is justified if they would grow up to be a mass murder? Do you think all of the children that god commanded to be murdered fell into that category or were there children who's murders were unjustified and therefore immoral?
Obviously, baby Hitler had no free will to choose his path in life. It is some comfort for thejeff, to see a friend's child dying of cancer and think, "probably a future mass murder," not giving any thought to all the mass murderers that do come about and make millions suffer.
Do you think thejeff gives much thought to the conflict omniscience and free will offer one another?
I think he has given it at least dozens of hours of thought. With an infinite God, there is room for God's complete sovereignty and our complete free will. With an infinite God, there is room even for things that may seem like a contradiction from our finite perspective.
thejeff wrote:
With an infinite God, there is room even for things that may seem like a contradiction from our finite perspective.
There you have it. The ace in the hole that refutes logic.
Jeff on a Starship wrote:
thejeff wrote:With an infinite God, there is room even for things that may seem like a contradiction from our finite perspective.
There you have it. The ace in the hole that refutes logic.
Have you ever read Flatland? This isn't about logic, at least, not the way you mean it. This is about perspective.
So unless all the slaughtered children were going to somehow grow up to be Hitler-esque, then their slaughter was not justified. That means the god you worship has commanded something incredibly immoral. How do you square the circle of an all-loving god and a child slaughtering god? Even if it did exist, why would you worship a god that would command something so immoral?
thejeff wrote:
Gladly :-)
http://www.ccwg.org/userdocs/images/files/new_belivers_outlines/single_workbooks/THE%20ASSURANCE-OF-ANSWERED-PRAYER.pdfI should not have put quotations around "conditions of answered prayer", but I had numbers 4-8 in mind... apologies :-)
Sorry, but I'm not interested in looking up the answers to Sunday School questions. Is there a verse you could post to explain why god might heal people with cancer but not heal amputees?
thejeff wrote:
Sloetry in Motion wrote:So you think there are times when the slaughtering of children is the morally correct thing to do?
Do I think that? No. But, I rarely have all the facts, either. Were these, possibly, the younger versions of Hitler, Attila, Dahmer, and bin Laden? If only I were omniscient...
I can answer this one for you. No, because Hitler, Attila, Dahmer and bin Laden were all adults.
thejeff wrote:
Jeff on a Starship wrote:There you have it. The ace in the hole that refutes logic.
Have you ever read Flatland? This isn't about logic, at least, not the way you mean it. This is about perspective.
Your perspective attempts to refute logic.
If you are going to put words in my mouth, I am not gonna let you play any reindeer games.
Sloetry in Motion wrote:
thejeff wrote:Gladly :-)
http://www.ccwg.org/userdocs/images/files/new_belivers_outlines/single_workbooks/THE%20ASSURANCE-OF-ANSWERED-PRAYER.pdfI should not have put quotations around "conditions of answered prayer", but I had numbers 4-8 in mind... apologies :-)
Sorry, but I'm not interested in looking up the answers to Sunday School questions. Is there a verse you could post to explain why god might heal people with cancer but not heal amputees?
You have everything you need right in front of you. If you really are interested, dive in :-)
Jeff on a Starship wrote:
thejeff wrote:Have you ever read Flatland? This isn't about logic, at least, not the way you mean it. This is about perspective.
Your perspective attempts to refute logic.
OUR perspective DEFINES our logic. What was logical to you as a 5 year old is less logical to you now. What is logical to someone who lives in a 3 dimensional finite world may not mean squat (specialized theological term) to an infinite omnipotent being.
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Romans 1:20
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. Hebrews 4:12-13
Remember when people had enough sense to fear their maker?
Awesome. Life's pretty simple when everything that good, bad, wrong, right, useless and utterly senseless is all god's doing. All his choice. Oh, but we all have free will. But it's all decided by him no matter what.
And to repeat, man wrote the bible.
This guy wrote:
And to repeat, man wrote the bible.
man also created all gods.
poly sci professor wrote:
This guy wrote:And to repeat, man wrote the bible.
man also created all gods.
It's an answer to an age-old question. Who created God?
Answer: man did
This guy wrote:
poly sci professor wrote:man also created all gods.
It's an answer to an age-old question. Who created God?
Answer: man did
I thought it was the egg?
This guy wrote:
Awesome. Life's pretty simple when everything that good, bad, wrong, right, useless and utterly senseless is all god's doing. All his choice. Oh, but we all have free will. But it's all decided by him no matter what.
Why an atheist would want to complicate that is beyond me.
Bible and slavery wrote:
Stagger, my response is delayed until the weekend. Checking up on family in NE with this snow storm....
Y'all be safe :-)