Can you train seriously in Onitsuka Tigers?

I would certainly recommend a community college remedial composition course.

Why do you want to train in retro shoes? Those classics would be fine for someone who is incredibly light, not injury prone and has perfect mechanics. Even then he'd be better off training in a more current shoe.

I mostly run in "minimalist" shoes, and coincidentally wear an old pair of Tigers when I'm wearing sneakers casually. I wouldn't recommend doing any real training in the Tigers. You can do it, and it's not the worst thing in the world and work fine if you happen to be wearing them, but they're made out of heavy materials that don't breathe, don't really have a form fitting fit, and the sole on mine tends to separate.

I really like the ultimate '81 which is basically the same shoe Rodgers wore from about 76-81.

There is a youtube video from '75 where Rodgers and Shorter tie in a ten miler and Frank laces up a pair of Jayhawks that look like they just came out of the box.

Shorter's iconic yellow shoes were actually Adidas.

they weren't the Jayhawks, but the Obhoris

not from here anymore wrote:

they weren't the Jayhawks, but the Obhoris

Obhoris?...Really?

Anyway, I raced up to marathon in the Onitsuka Marathons (blue/white without reinforced toes). At the time thought them fantastic (ie, light). Once the 80's rolled around, though, they were quickly assigned to history. At least a bit of cushioning is good!! I would not recommend training in them. If they are still in good condition sell them on Ebay.

not from here anymore wrote:

they weren't the Jayhawks, but the Obhoris

You're right. I thought I saw a pair of re-issued Jayhawks that looked like the shoes Shorter was wearing.

I tried it running in some old school running shoes and I wouldn't recommend it. The shoe remakes are are not made how they were years ago. I never tried Onitsuka but I tried running in Saucony Bullets and Onitsuka Tiger mexico 66 that was probably the worst decision I ever made for a running shoe.The shoes felt comfortable for about a mile and then you will start to feel foot pain and knee pain unless you do some serious modifications to the sole on the inside. I would just buy a pair of Merrell Vapor Gloves, Or Vivobarefoot Evo Pure while they are still 50% if you want to learn to run lighter on your feet.

Ignore the typos I made.

Ultimate '81 wrote:

not from here anymore wrote:

they weren't the Jayhawks, but the Obhoris

You're right. I thought I saw a pair of re-issued Jayhawks that looked like the shoes Shorter was wearing.

Yes, Shorter is definitely putting on Ohbori's in that video (and opening video appears to be Rodgers in Boston '80, definitely not '75). Ohbori (or a custom model very similar) is the shoe that it appears Rodgers wore in the late 70s and early 80s, not the Ultimate. Ultimate came out in early 80s. I never wore either (I would kill for a pair of Ohbori's), but the Ultimate was certainly a more modern shoe than the Ohbori. I think that the Ohbori is one of the raciest-looking racing shoes ever made. But my guess is that the Ultimate was a better shoe (mid-70's shoe vs. early 80's shoe - not surprising). I've always wondered, however, how close the current Ultimate (and other retros) are to the original? Current Ultimates look clunkier than I remember the very racy Ultimate looking, but never sure if that's just my memory getting in the way.

Would LOVE to see ACCURATE retros of the following (and I don't think that I've seen retros of any kind, accurate or not, of any of them). To the topic, still not sure I'd run in them, but I'd BUY them!!

- Tiger Ohbori (clear #1)

- Nike Oregon Waffle (close #2)

- Nike Eagle (close #3)

- Tiger Jayhawk

Oh, and Shorter's yellow shoes from 72 Munich were adidas Arrows, I believe.

Close up pictures of Rodgers in his heyday appear to show a shoe somewhere between the Ohbori and the Ulitmate '81.

I presumed the Ultimate '81 was just the end result of the basic design.

I love the design of this shoe.

Here's a good trivia question for folks who have spent far too much time thinking about racing shoes: What the HELL was Rodgers wearing during his post-Tiger days at the '84 Olympic Marathon Trials ?? (and I don't know the answer)

I run in the Mesh version. Compared to most modern running shoes they are very light and flexible. Not as light as Mizuno Universes (racing flat) but to be fair they do have more sole and more durability then the Mizuno's which I really like.The problem with the Mizunos is they have all these gaudy numbers on the mesh uppers that look a little funky on the road for training. The Blue Mesh Mexico 66s don't stand out at all and look passably modern. Only those who know their running shoes looking closely post run really notice they aren't "normal modern" shoes.

As for feel & feedback they won't come close to Vibram Five Fingers ELX (which are great if just looking for more mileage and protection then straight up barefoot). The Mexicos do have a very minimal drop, but it's nowhere near as bad as modern shoes which after learning to run barefoot feel like your running in high heels. Plus I got them on sale for $35. Not bad.

I hear where your coming from. Running barefoot is great for learning natural running form but it does limit the distance and pace at which you can run. Running in minimal shoes allows greater distance and faster paces without loosing that great ground feel or degradation of running form by having your feedback loop deaden by layers of foam.

Just a few years ago we had such a great selection of minimal shoes. Learning to run barefoot cured me of my shin splints by teaching me how jarring that straight leg pole vault heel strike running form is. It forces you into a natural forefoot gentle running form landing lightly under your body just ahead of your center of gravity with bent knees and letting your legs absorb the shock not some piece of foam.

Now the industry is back to high heel foam & gel shoes again. Even Five Fingers are all thick and stiff with only the ELX offering that very minimalist feel (even more so then the originals!). Sigh... but as the runners and the industry have gone back I have found and an unconventional answer.

If you can't find a pair of Mesh Mexico 66s I would recommend trying on racing flats. They are very minimal & have great ground feel with minimal stack heights & heel drops that allow longer distances and faster paces without loosing that great ground feel. They also look for the most part like regular running shoes that won't look out of place or get stared at like running barefoot or Vibram ELXs.

Racing flats are hard to find but well worth it if looking for minimal running shoes for road work. For off road trail shoes look for spikeless cross county training shoes. They also have that minimal running shoe feel with minimal stack heights and close to zero heel drops. Also for the most part they look like any other trail shoe. Only those who know shoes well (like my buddies that work at the local run shop) looking very closely post trail run will notice they are not typical trail shoes and ask about them. The only problem is they are only available during cross country season so stock up in summer or very early autumn. The problem is they are limited runs on highly specialized shoes so selection and sizes are only abundant early in the cross country season. Once they are gone you'll have to wait until next summer.

Hope this helps.

-Rey

You generally can get spikeless cross country shoes when out of season from Running Warehouse.

Ran in Tiger Marathons back in the day, that's all I had. Gave me plantar fasciatitis from hell.

And fascists suck, too.

Er... wrote:

Why do you want to train in retro shoes? Those classics would be fine for someone who is incredibly light, not injury prone and has perfect mechanics. Even then he'd be better off training in a more current shoe.

That is totally wrong, the worst advice ever. Modern running shoes are high priced built up monstrosities that cause all kinds of issues and injuries.

Loser Flat Lover wrote:

Would LOVE to see ACCURATE retros of the following (and I don't think that I've seen retros of any kind, accurate or not, of any of them). To the topic, still not sure I'd run in them, but I'd BUY them!!

- Tiger Ohbori (clear #1)

- Nike Oregon Waffle (close #2)

- Nike Eagle (close #3)

- Tiger Jayhawk

I agree with this 100%, with rearrangement of the shoes & order:

Orange Tiger Jayhawks ~ clear #1

Ohbori ~ okay for racing, toes too tight for training;

Adidas SL72 / 76 ~ okay for training and lasted a long time;

Waffles ~ only had one pair and someone stole them from my porch.

I took all the trim off the Jayhawks, including the front toe pieces and glued the nylon to the soles, which gave me ample toe room. If these were available, I'd wear them for everything. I got really good mileage off every pair of them.

For training, I ran 1600 miles in the original NB trails, then they changed the model; the new ones hurt my feet and I've not gotten NB since.

The parkour community has been training in the ultimate 81s for over 5 years now. They love the saying they have great grip, comfort, and tactile feel. So to answer your question yes you can train in them hard.

The reason people have issues with shoes that have little to no midsoles is tactile feel. This is where you feel the impact of your feet to the ground. This is important to impove technique. If you can't feel anything you will make no ajustments to your technique eventually resulting in injury.

Here is a video of a guy training in ultimate 81s

https://youtu.be/wkzpd7RUzys

I both trained and raced in Onitsuka Tigers. Never injured even if I used them both in training and racing. It was like a light glove on the foot. I liked it very much. And Abebe Bikila ran without shoes….. !