A lot of people assume most or all WRs are set by dopers. But Paula's WR is so out there compared to any other women's marathon. No other WR is that dominant over other performances. Why?
A lot of people assume most or all WRs are set by dopers. But Paula's WR is so out there compared to any other women's marathon. No other WR is that dominant over other performances. Why?
Because she strength trained and had a whole team of people around her helping her (legally). If the Kenyans strength trained like she did, you'd see the guys running the equivalent to her (close to 2 hrs) and the Kenyan women running closer to her. This is not drugs-- it's a body that maintains form when fatigued.
/end
The difference between the best woman, like Paula, and the next tier is larger than it is for men, because the best woman have narrower hips, like men, and have a large advantage over woman who have wider hips. The top men have no such advantage over the next tier of men.
Therein lies the answer.
reader of the forums 2.0 wrote:
The difference between the best woman, like Paula, and the next tier is larger than it is for men, because the best woman have narrower hips, like men, and have a large advantage over woman who have wider hips. The top men have no such advantage over the next tier of men.
So there is Paula Radcliffe, and every other marathon running woman ever has big child-bearing hips that slow them way down?
Her 2:17 is the only legit comparison, and the several minute gap from that to the next possibly clean time (Yamaguchi? Kastor?) is the blood doping.
I suppose one could ask how Lance managed to win 7 straight TDFs, which is a form of dominance despite the fact that he was not the only one cheating. It happens, and Paula's record will one day be broken.
hurman monster wrote:
I suppose one could ask how Lance managed to win 7 straight TDFs, which is a form of dominance despite the fact that he was not the only one cheating. It happens, and Paula's record will one day be broken.
^This. Or ask about Junxia. Or Flo-Jo.
For a world record to last over a decade, one needs imho:
- great talent
- terrific training
- high pain threshold
- luck with the weather
- a helpful drug that one couldn't use afterwards (e.g., because of the new testing method)
Having said that, I'm sure some more optimistic people will argue against the last point. But the first four points will always be reproduced by someone...
Note also that we keep improving training and nutrition and shoes etc., but not in jumps. So if some lady will run a 2:13 next year in the London Marathon, I will call that suspicious. ;-)
Well FloJos was a double whammy. Not only was she most likely doping, but she also got help with wind instrument failure, that they refuse to admit to this day. +4-6mps wind for every race, except for a miracle 0.0 on that race.
rubbish and nonsense
read Tyler's book. "The secret race".
a ferrari versus a datsun wrote:
rubbish and nonsense
read Tyler's book. "The secret race".
comment above is regarding Lance having no advantage.
not drugged. wrote:
Because she strength trained and had a whole team of people around her helping her (legally). If the Kenyans strength trained like she did, you'd see the guys running the equivalent to her (close to 2 hrs) and the Kenyan women running closer to her. This is not drugs-- it's a body that maintains form when fatigued.
/end
What type of strength training? I'm legit curious.
Seoul Train wrote:
reader of the forums 2.0 wrote:The difference between the best woman, like Paula, and the next tier is larger than it is for men, because the best woman have narrower hips, like men, and have a large advantage over woman who have wider hips. The top men have no such advantage over the next tier of men.
So there is Paula Radcliffe, and every other marathon running woman ever has big child-bearing hips that slow them way down?
Haven't you ever heard the phrase "One of a kind"?
Yeah, you're right! One of a kind responder to autologus blood transfusion and other PEDs....
macdaddy wrote:
Haven't you ever heard the phrase "One of a kind"?
readrun wrote:
What type of strength training? I'm legit curious.
This gives great insight (posting key excerpts below). I don't believe the Africans are doing even close to the amount of stuff she did. Furthermore, if you read "Train Hard, Win Easy The Kenyan Way", the African women are conscious of their weight and likely undereating/undernourished. Paula and her team analyzed every single detail to make sure her body was healthy and could perform optimally. Those who brush off strength training by saying "Well the Africans don't strength train" need to take a look at what Paula did-- she's better than them because she did everything possible ensure she got the most out of her body.
People can bash her, with no evidence actually (!), that she had to have doped-- even if she did, she's still 3 min. faster. It comes down to all the auxiliary stuff she did.
http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/paula-radcliffes-journey-from-disappointing-fourth-to-dominant-first...."I looked and said, ‘What needs to change for this most determined of athletes to win the big events? How can we increase the strength and power ratios?’ I have a very simple test, which is a 16-inch-high box, where we do 20 hops up and down at speed. Every top athlete from Colin Jackson to Suzy Hamilton has done this test. It is a test of strength to power and action-reaction. The record for a man is 11.8 seconds and Suzy Hamilton and Kelly Holmes tie the women’s record at 12.5 seconds. Most of the other top international athletes, including Sonia O’Sullivan, can do the test in 15 to 16 seconds. Yet, Paula Radcliffe’s test the first time she did it was 27 seconds. This was a quantum difference. It meant that Paula’s strength to power ratio, her ability to act-react, was dismal. It was no wonder she was being left behind in the final lap.
"We had to gradually implement a program of plyometrics using depth jumps, side bunny hops, forward bunny hops, and jumping off benches. It is no different to what Sebastian Coe did with his father, Peter, and with George Gandy many years ago. Seb Coe was not the biggest of athletes, but they developed him into an athlete. He did not just run, he did dynamic exercises, plyometric exercises, strength exercises, squats, lunges, and heavy weight sessions. We brought this approach to Paula Radcliffe’s training program after the Olympic Games and it was less than a year later that we saw she won her first world title.
...."Paula has consistently invested at least 10 percent of her annual earnings in making sure that she has a full support in place, and a lot of other athletes could learn a valuable lesson from this professional approach. Some athletes have a weakness in their nutrition. They may feel that they are eating well but then if what they are eating is analyzed, it emerges that they are not getting enough nutrients or trace minerals. The athlete needs to get the carbohydrates, the proteins, and the fats, plus the trace minerals and the vital things like sodium, potassium and calcium. Your muscles cannot contract properly unless you have the proper levels of minerals in your food. This is especially true for women. We see many women athletes looking undernourished, because they feel that they will improve their performance if they lose weight."
...."You must above all take adequate rest. Paula will regularly have a two-hour afternoon nap. The pineal gland, which is just below the brain, releases natural hormone (HGH)—which is needed to build new muscle—into the body 30 minutes after going to sleep. Sleeping twice a day releases a second dose of HGH into the body."....
Seoul Train wrote:
reader of the forums 2.0 wrote:The difference between the best woman, like Paula, and the next tier is larger than it is for men, because the best woman have narrower hips, like men, and have a large advantage over woman who have wider hips. The top men have no such advantage over the next tier of men.
So there is Paula Radcliffe, and every other marathon running woman ever has big child-bearing hips that slow them way down?
Radcliffe does NOT have big child bearing hips.
Paying attention wrote:
Radcliffe does NOT have big child bearing hips.
"Paying attention". Now there's an ironic user name.
She blood doped, altitude trained, drafted behind male pacers, ran for time on a fast course and killed it.
Jiptoo ran 2:18.57 in Boston, which would probably equate to a 2:17.30 on a good day in Berlin or London. She dropped a 4:48 final mile. She was not going for time, she was just picking up another huge pay check for the win. She was on EPO.
Belays of glory wrote:
Her 2:17 is the only legit comparison, and the several minute gap from that to the next possibly clean time (Yamaguchi? Kastor?) is the blood doping.
Do you really beleive that Yamaguchi and Kastor are clean? You must believe in fairy tales.
None of the sub 2:20 women were clean....
Am I living in the twilight zone? The Boston Marathon weather was terrible!
Des Linden: "The entire sport" has changed since she first started running Boston.
Matt Choi was drinking beer halfway through the Boston Marathon
Ryan Eiler, 3rd American man at Boston, almost out of nowhere
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion