Landlord demands to keep Nest thermostat I installed. What can I do?

It was just a temporary improvement. Just like changing the curtains. Nothing to worry about.

Let him have it. You can get another one. With all the rebates available, they're practically giving them away.

He says it is a permanent improvement.

Do I just take it off, replace it with the original one, and then sue him when he doesn't refund my deposit?

If it's wired into the wall, it's permanent just like a light fixture.

You shouldn't have told him in the first place.

You already reinstalled the original and left the place the way you found it?

Looks like he's trying to steal $300 from you.

I think the recourse is the same as any time a landlord refuses to refund a deposit.

Track Timer wrote:

If it's wired into the wall, it's permanent just like a light fixture.

You shouldn't have told him in the first place.

This is generally not true about something like this. A permanent improvement is one that cannot be easily removed (and returned to original spec).

Let him know this thermostat did not meet the legal requirements for permanent improvements, and if he withholds the deposit you'll register a complaint with the BBB and see him in small claims court.

You can always leave the apartment the way it was when you moved in. The exception is if the landlord paid for a TIA or did some work himself. In that case you would have to reimburse the part of the improvement he paid for. This obviously doesn't apply here.

That's a load of crap. Reinstall the old one and say you did another tenant improvement.

renter wrote:

He said it was just like if I had painted the apartment or changed out the sink. I couldn't remove the paint or put the other sink back.

Poor analogy by the landlord. What you are doing is akin to repainting the apartment in its original color, not removing the paint. If you wanted to rip your new thermostat out and not reinstall the old one, he would have a point, but I don't see how he could take issue with you returning it in original condition.

What would the security deposit charge even be for? What work costing $300 would be necessary as a result of your reinstalling the original thermostat? He can't just keep money as a penalty because he doesn't like something you did. It has to actually be used for necessary repair work. If he does not repay your full deposit, you should request copies of invoices for the work performed using the deposit. At least in my state, he would be legally required to furnish this documentation.

Easily removed tenant items, that can be restored to prior conditions are not owned by the landlord.

Removable Improvements Are Safer than Fixtures

These improvements could include major appliances like refrigerators, ranges, washers and dryers that plug in, screw in or otherwise require simple wiring or attachments to connect to an electrical or water source.

A tenant can often change simple fixtures in the home. Updating cabinet hardware, light fixtures and switch plates, electrical outlet plates and bathroom fixtures is a simple way to update the home. Be sure to keep the original items, however, and replace them with no damage before you move out.

http://blogs.lawyers.com/2013/04/renters-and-legal-home-improvements/

Your landlord is a giant sack of crap and doesn't have a leg to stand on.

He is gambling that $300 isn't worth it for you to bother going to court. You would definitely win.

If I were you, I would tell the landlord that, if he doesn't return your $300 promptly, you will not only sue him but will post his identity on Letsrun, so that people with no lives can make his a living hell, as they did with that RD who threatened to sue to reclaim prize money and Mike Rossi, among others.

OP:

You have to decide if it is worth it for you to deal with this... I graduated from UNC in the mid 2000s and I lived in an apartment complex by the name of Timber Hollow for a year while I applied to med schools and finished up some undergrad requirements. I lived alone and rarely had anyone over. No pets and never any issues. It was a fairly monastic year for me.

I always thought the ladies in the office were nice, and the only time I ever saw them was to drop off my rent check each month or if they were out and about on the property. I was friendly.

I moved out on a Sunday, and there was no one in the office. Since I knew this was the case, I was instructed to put my keys in a special envelope that they gave me and drop it in the rent slot. I had very little furniture, so it took my father and I roughly two hours to move it all into a U-Haul, clean the apartment and drop off the keys. I remember doing a walk through to see if there were any marks on the walls, etc. Nothing, the place was pristine.

So about a month later I get a notice in the mail that I owe them $850 due to a destroyed carpet. I called because it was surely a mistake and the lady - same lady from when I was there - told me that I had ruined the carpet and that it had to be replaced. I said, "There is no way, I did a final walk through on my way out and it looked brand new. I even vacuumed before I left." She basically said, "Sorry" so I offered to come and see it to make sure it wasn't someone else's apartment or some other mistake. She just said that it had already been replaced and that she could send me pictures of the stains. I asked her to do so and she did: physical pictures in the mail. They were of a carpet with stains, up close. No way to tell if it was the carpet in my apartment.

I told them that I was going to hire a lawyer and they called my bluff. Basically said, "bring it on." I spoke with a lawyer friend of mine and he told me that it would cost me no less than $500 to take them to court and they would probably win. Plus, they were going to hit my credit report with it right away, and even if I won in court it would likely stay on my credit report.

So I gave them the $850.

Still burns me up a decade later. My guess is that they were short somewhere and saw me as a likely sucker since I moved out without a walk through. In subsequent apartments, I have demanded a walk through with the manager before and after the rental time, and I document all issues and have the manager sign. It sounds insane and OCD, I know...

Are you relying on his review of you as a renter for future leases? If he's going to be an A-hole about this and make your life hell down the road, then I'd probably resist poking the bear.

You can bet the landlord will remove the Nest thermostat, replace it a standard one, and keep it for themselves.

Have a couple of friends drop by to see the apartment --potential renter and friend. Have one of them distract the landlord while the other video tapes using a smartphone, the replaced 9stolen) thermostat. Be sure to video the landlord speaking with the tenant, as well as the unit number.

You can take them to small claims court; do it yourself, triple damages. Provide proof of your purchase of the item, proof it was installed (photos, video, unit number), documents from the landlord claiming they owned it, and your proof it was replaced.

If the landlords is stupid enough to try to damage your credit because they lost a court case --a public record credit services access--, you can fix your credit proving the landlord lost in court, and you can sue them for a lot more money.

renter wrote:

Do I have any recourse?

Your recourse is to keep the thermostat. You are perfectly free to leave the apartment in the same condition in which you found it. If he withholds the deposit, you take him to small claims court or in some cities there are specific landlord-tenant dispute resolution mechanisms. If he is withholding in bad faith you may be able to get extra damages (amount and availability of this remedy depends on state law).

fitting ...

http://www.hulu.com/watch/10310

Did he ever actually see your thermostat installed in his wall? If not, tell him you never actually installed it or that it didn't work and you immediately put the original back in.

X-Runner wrote:

You already reinstalled the original and left the place the way you found it?

Looks like he's trying to steal $300 from you.

I think the recourse is the same as any time a landlord refuses to refund a deposit.

Right.

The apartment needs to be in the same or better condition as when you moved in, and you MUST get back 100% of the initial deposit.

How much is the security deposit?