Drew Hunter & Lukas Verzbicas: Footlocker Comparison

Verzbicas was an overage age cheat. Of course there is no comparison. Sticking with Arcadia guys, enter current aged Moussa instead of Rocha in this year's Footlocker and you would see a truly dominating performance. That was all that you saw in Verzbicas' win.

Is that a fair comparison? Some would say it was over by the time Hunter crossed 800m in 2:13.

Fisher's complete destruction of the lead pack last year with about 800 to go- putting 10 seconds on Hunter and Co. in the span of about :90 was pretty dominating.Ritz destroying 2 legitimate 4:00 mile threats in Webb and Hall- all after the mile- by :20 was pretty dominating.Solinsky's 4:37 last mile was total beast mode. His 2 mile split was 10 sec behind Hunter's, and he finished the race 15 seconds faster.Goucher demoralized a pretty solid field back in 93, beating Meb by :12 over the last 1200 or so.And finally, Marc Davis was pretty dominant over Todd Williams, running 14:38 to Todd's 14:49.

Old Man Winter wrote:

Is that a fair comparison? Some would say it was over by the time Hunter crossed 800m in 2:13.

In a previous thread about this comparison, I defended Hunter's performance by indicating that he opened a larger gap on second place. However, if the OP is correct and Verzbicas did have 11 seconds on Futsum, then his was definitely the more "dominant" performance.

Footlocker wasn't even a race for Verzbicas in 2010. He came up the last hill, jogged it in while waving to the crowd, and then walked across the finish line. This was also 1 week after racing in a mudpit at NXN and beating Lutz, Cheserek, and both Rosas in the process.

Seyta wrote:

Old Man Winter wrote:

Is that a fair comparison? Some would say it was over by the time Hunter crossed 800m in 2:13.

In a previous thread about this comparison, I defended Hunter's performance by indicating that he opened a larger gap on second place. However, if the OP is correct and Verzbicas did have 11 seconds on Futsum, then his was definitely the more "dominant" performance.

Footlocker wasn't even a race for Verzbicas in 2010. He came up the last hill, jogged it in while waving to the crowd, and then walked across the finish line. This was also 1 week after racing in a mudpit at NXN and beating Lutz, Cheserek, and both Rosas in the process.

I have to agree. If you have any doubts, just watch the videos. Verzbicas looked like he was out for a tempo run, not a race, and he destroyed everybody. Long, loping, easy stride the whole race, never losing form, grimacing, or straining at all. I believe he could have run at least 20-30 seconds faster if anyone pushed him. And if you STILL doubt him, look at his two-mile record: 8:29. I love Ritz's and Reina's Footlocker performances, and I'm not saying that Verzibicas would surely have beaten either of them, but Verzbicas just played with the field at Footlocker. You can say "age cheat" all you want, but he ran within the age rules. If he was born in the USA, most of the haters wouldn't be hating.

Phil Fondacaro wrote:

Verzbicas was an overage age cheat.

...

No he wasn't. He was an 17 years 10 months old when he won Footlocker in 2010. He skipped his senior year. He graduated when he 18 years old like most other high schoolers.

I don't think there is even a compassion between the two, Verzbicas is arguably the greatest high school XC runner ever and I would not put Hunter in the top-10. You have to keep in mind 2 things, one, the week before Verzbicas' 2010 FLNC victory he won NXN, which was one of the greatest H.S. XC races ever. The NXN race was the true national championship and FLNC was downgrade and he made it look easy. Two, once he realized he had a big lead in the FLNC race at about the 2-mile mark, he clearly stopped attacking and basically cruised in. In a way, Verzbicas is the only athlete to win 3 national championships and during it all, he never stopped training for the tri.

Verzbikas was in his 20s when he won Footlocker. Seriously, eff that guy. It's not fair or useful to compare legitimate high school performances to ones that are fraudulent.

Hydlide wrote:

Verzbikas was in his 20s when he won Footlocker. Seriously, eff that guy. It's not fair or useful to compare legitimate high school performances to ones that are fraudulent.

I saw him when he ran in Illinois his junior year and he didn't look over age. What evidence do you have?

Who would be in your top 10 list of HS XC guys ever?

Well, who is? wrote:

Who would be in your top 10 list of HS XC guys ever?

Refer to this thread:

If you scroll through, you'll notice that in the vast majority of cases, there is absolutely no one that Hunter could bump from the Top 10 based on his current accomplishments.

Now, if he manages some spectacular times this Spring, it'll be a different story.

Most quotes I have seen say something like, "Most dominating victory since 2011." That means 2010 could have been even more dominating.

"Two, once he realized he had a big lead in the FLNC race at about the 2-mile mark, he clearly stopped attacking"

I think it is fair to say that once Hunter reached the 800 in 2:13.6 he stopped attacking. Attempting to say who could have done what if they pushed the whole way or if they had someone to race is not rational.

Somewhere there is a DH quote that says something like he was worried about his hamstring. If he really had to race either his hamstring would have given or he could have kicked a lot more. Further to run the record you only need to run 4:40 pace and Hunter would have looked a lot different loping along at that pace. As I understand it from 400 to 800 is quite an uphill at 4:27 pace. Going out in 2:13.6 was all about breaking everyone and not about running a fast time whereas LV just cruised the entire thing so he never pushed at all and looked good.

That thread is top 10 RUNNERS, mostly focused on the track. Who are the top 10 all time XC runners is what I am wondering. Don't think all those guys would make the top 10 XC list.

Ever since Saturday I have contemplated making this very thread. I refrained due to the fact that I figured everyone would call him an age cheat. Seems I was right.

But fact is, LV was way better. Never lost a HS cross country race, which of course includes a double. The 2010 race is on YouTube. Go watch it, total control and not even pushed.

In retrospect, given that the thread I provided is so long, you probably won't want to be bothered with trying to find the "XC-exclusive" talks within it.

To make a long story short, Hunter's XC prowess is more or less based on this one season, since he wasn't exceptional compared to his peers before this.

He isn't like Verzbicas, Fisher, Cheserek, Ritz, or Abdirizak who have multiple victories. Also, unlike Verzbicas, he wasn't able to win both national championships.

All that's left to qualify his success then, is his time. And unfortunately, there are many One-Win FL champions who have clocked faster.

Maybe this would change if you start factoring in Non-National Level performances, but then it becomes hugely subjective, as every person tends to overexaggerate state-level victories, and there is no reliable way to compare courses.

How many of these "one win" champions have clocked faster than 14:20 or run 14:26 on a lengthened Footlocker South course?

Hydlide wrote:

Verzbikas was in his 20s when he won Footlocker. Seriously, eff that guy. It's not fair or useful to compare legitimate high school performances to ones that are fraudulent.

holy crap. for real? do you have any idea what you are even talking about? Yes he was old for his age, yet he took on twice the adacemic workload so he could graduate early. He was under 18 when he won footlockers. HE WASN'T EVEN THE OLDEST PERSON IN THE RACE.

These 17 year old jabronis starting to post on letsrun are really starting to annoy me. You don't even have a clue how impressive verzbicas was throughout his high school career.

Do me a favor and check out his triple at nationals. Not to mention, he had to race edward cheserek...

There used to be a video of LV when he ran 14:18i as a Freshman. I can't find it now, but even then you could see he was head and shoulders above everyone. Rock steady pace and lapped guys multiple times. Imagine running sub 15 in high school and getting lapped by another high schooler!

Let me tell you something youngsters , Adam Goucher beating Meb to win Footlocker is a better performance than Drew or Lukas. Give me a freaking break. Completely underrated in high school and college Goucher was beating Bernard Lagat in college.