Doping problem comes to Ultramarathons

Here is a link to an article on Competitor yesterday about doping and ultras:

http://running.competitor.com/2015/12/news/ultrarunning-at-a-crossroads-is-there-a-growing-doping-problem_141321

Noticed multiple CTS (Carmichael Training Systems) shirt and hats at races recently.

Uh-oh

This is why Letsrun is important.

The healthy scepticism on these message boards is proven to be justified time and again.

I'm not aware of another website so unapologetically and refreshingly unwilting in questioning everything going on in athletics.

It's a site for runners who care about running and excelling through the simple act of doing more running, smarter running.

I hope the ultra running community sort themselves out before it's too late, they have to draw a line in the sand right now to ensure they keep their sport real.

I love the ultra bashing on here, it's hilarious "banter", but I think every runner appreciates the purity of running all day long because it's just what we enjoy doing, it's natural.

Hopefully in 5 to 10 years time, letsrunners will still be bashing ultra runners for being glorified hikers and not discussing dubious results.

Sounds like the shady Italians moving from cycling to Kenyan runners in the '90s. Rats scurrying from one sinking ship to another.

They has been dopes in ultramarathoning for a long time. Nothing new here.

There is no doubt in my mind that many ultra people dope, but with money you will get a wave of dopers to swoop in and take the cash.

Seems like ultras would be fertile ground for doping. Below-average talent for most runners, so more headroom for improvement with doping. Sustaining a racing and training schedule is all about recovery, so a lot more room for steroids and growth hormone there. A lot of ultra runners go way overboard with training, so their thyroid and testosterone levels go in the tank. With sponsorships and prize money, plus limited/no testing, doping would be trivial to get away with.

There is something about the ultra mentality that suggests ultra runners would be more prone to doping. Something to do with the "more and further is always better" attitude. It's the same reason why all the wacky shoes and high-tech gadgets and fad diets (keto cookies anyone?) and supplements always spread like wildfire among ultra runners. AKA why every ultrarunner looks like this:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/marathon_do/accessories.png

I'm pretty sure it is only called "doping" if it is done in a sport. Otherwise it is just "taking medicine" or "drug abuse," depending if it was prescribed by a doctor or not.

Maybe the title of the thread should be changed to properly reflect that?

"drug abuse/therapeutic medicine problem comes to the non-sporting activity of Ultramarathons"

Great article in Ultrarunning magazine in the December 2015 issue contrasting the training philosophies of Jason Koop of Carmichael Training Systems and Ian Torrence of McMillian Running, both top ultra marathon coaches.

Very interesting read. Especially about Koop. His training relies heavility on Chris Carmichaels' overload single system cycling training which worked or was possible very likely do largely to PED usage. Very telling article if you know training theory and physiology.

I wanted to give Koop the benefit of the doubt and not condem him just because of his working for Carmichael, but this article confirms some suspicions in my mind. An athlete would be very lucky to survive and improve significantly under Koop's training method without PEDs in my opinion.

nothing lasts wrote:

This is why Letsrun is important.

The healthy scepticism on these message boards is proven to be justified time and again.

I'm not aware of another website so unapologetically and refreshingly unwilting in questioning everything going on in athletics.

You should check out The Clinic on CyclingNews forum.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

You should check out The Clinic on CyclingNews forum.

And follow @TheRaceRadio on Twitter and @scienceofsports (Ross Tucker) and that guy with the finish name and @festinaboy

Mr. Obvious wrote:

nothing lasts wrote:

This is why Letsrun is important.

The healthy scepticism on these message boards is proven to be justified time and again.

I'm not aware of another website so unapologetically and refreshingly unwilting in questioning everything going on in athletics.

You should check out The Clinic on CyclingNews forum.

Thanks for the Clinic. A poster there said this about Froome:

'This time frame has also coincided with his ridiculous increase in performance between Poland and Vuelta '11. He is also on record as saying that his move to Monaco really helped his performance and it was this that assisted with "everything falling into place".'

Paula moved to Monaco in 2004.

Fred, its' the different level of gravity and ;lesser tax burden of Monaco that allows more efficient spring action when athletes are based there.

Paula's fastest times were in 2002-2003. After her move to Monaco she ran one 2:17:xx her 3rd fastest marathon, and won 4 major marathons.

Yep, more efficient spring action with Dr. Stephane Berman.

Concerned Ultra Runner wrote:

Great article in Ultrarunning magazine in the December 2015 issue contrasting the training philosophies of Jason Koop of Carmichael Training Systems and Ian Torrence of McMillian Running, both top ultra marathon coaches.

Very interesting read. Especially about Koop. His training relies heavility on Chris Carmichaels' overload single system cycling training which worked or was possible very likely do largely to PED usage. Very telling article if you know training theory and physiology.

I wanted to give Koop the benefit of the doubt and not condem him just because of his working for Carmichael, but this article confirms some suspicions in my mind. An athlete would be very lucky to survive and improve significantly under Koop's training method without PEDs in my opinion.

Thanks, cool article

Would love to hear Camille Herron's (Jaguar1) view of the article and her view of the 2 philosophies and which philosophy her training is most similar to. She is after-all the double world champion (50k and 100k) in 2015. I believe her husband coaches her, so would be interesting to see his philosophy compared to Koop and Torrence and hear his/her thoughts on the PED roots of CTS and on drugs in ultras all together, I know she has been somewhat outspoken on this issue in the past.

Didn't Lance Armstrong just use the Carmichael Training System as a front to draw attention from his real coach, Michele Ferrari? Pretty sure Lance Armstrong let Carmichael use his name in his coaching programs and in return Chris Carmichael pretended to be his coach.

Carmichael Training wrote:

Didn't Lance Armstrong just use the Carmichael Training System as a front to draw attention from his real coach, Michele Ferrari? Pretty sure Lance Armstrong let Carmichael use his name in his coaching programs and in return Chris Carmichael pretended to be his coach.

Don't even try it. According to Chris Carmichael's numerous interviews over the years he insists he was in-charge of all of Lance's training and Lance even said in court documents that Carmichael was a party to the doping. But when Lance got busted Carmichael came up with this lame defense he really wasn't the coach and had no knowledge, nobody in cycling bought it.

Also Carmichael is the subject of a lawsuit from 2 young cyclist he coached as part of the U.S. Jr Cycling team. They sued him because he doped them so heavily they suffer health complications later on. Carmichael wouldn't comment publicly on the lawsuit and I think settled it out of court.

Do some Google searches lots of telling stuff out there on this guy, who's comapny is has gone heavily into ultra running now.

No doubt, if there were ever a scene perfect for doping it's the ultras. They are more concerned with being "extreme" than anything, and what's more extreme than injecting stuff into your veins so you can run higher, farther and faster?

heck a lot of them smoke weed ON THE COURSE.