This is how deep is doping in Kenya

Thanks for posting, Renato. Just one question though: how can we conclude from this data set that the majority of top athletes don't dope, from the point of view that many of them are protected, and WADA only bans a few of them as "fall guys" to make it seem like the other top athletes are clean?

Old Man Winter wrote:

Thanks for posting, Renato. Just one question though: how can we conclude from this data set that the majority of top athletes don't dope, from the point of view that many of them are protected, and WADA only bans a few of them as "fall guys" to make it seem like the other top athletes are clean?

I'm not necessarily saying that I believe this is the case, just that I understand that this is a common view.

So there are some relatively slow Kenyans who don't dope? We're aware of this. Even if the doping were systematic, the Kenyan federation wouldn't spend valuable resources to have their 200th best athlete dope. I think doping in Kenya is mostly an individual thing, but that nearly all the top Kenyans are doing it. The athletes that dope are the top few, like Chebet and Jeptoo. They take masking agents and have elaborate systems of beating the testers. To have so many caught doping suggests there are many more getting away with it.

Also Renato, an athlete you have ties to, Meucci, just got caught by Italian officials. You can't use the excuse you've only coached clean athletes any more. How do you explain why a top athlete like Meucci would dope, even when he has the benefit of your coaching?

Runners World:

"Her suspension dates from October 30, not from the September 25 date of the positive test. Does this mean she’d get to keep her 2014 Chicago Marathon title, which she won on October 12?"

So Jeptoo was taking EPO before Chicago to ensure that she got the half a million prize?

If it doesn't work on elite marathoners, why did she take it? She could not risk losing the half million dollars? It was better to gamble on not getting caught versus being set for life?

to be fair, there's zero proof of meucci doping. I actually won't be surprised if he is indeed doping, but here is factually zero proof, so your question is pretty off base. if you want canova to answer questions, try phrasing a properly worded question.

fyi, I also won't be surprised if the CONI whereabouts system got all effed up and they are just refusing to admit it. USADA's system has never had this problem, why is it that, all of a sudden, CONI has 50-60 athletes with whereabouts "problems?" and why did they clear over half of them, but decide to suspend the other half? smells like beaurocratic incompetence to me, but that's just my educated .02 (yes, I've been in the testing pool before, I know how it works).

here come the drug obsessives wrote:

It was only a matter of time before fred and trollism posted their usual stupid crap.

So......how many Kenyans need to be caught (in a system that certainly helps them not get caught as it stands) before we accept there is a deep seated problem?

A thousand get busted and you mugs are still somehow saying that those that have been right all along are the crazy ones.

Accept it, a lot of Kenyans cheat and the drugs most certainly work. Stop fighting it, you're just embarrassing yourselves now.

curious gee-orge wrote:

to be fair, there's zero proof of meucci doping. I actually won't be surprised if he is indeed doping, but here is factually zero proof, so your question is pretty off base. if you want canova to answer questions, try phrasing a properly worded question.

fyi, I also won't be surprised if the CONI whereabouts system got all effed up and they are just refusing to admit it. USADA's system has never had this problem, why is it that, all of a sudden, CONI has 50-60 athletes with whereabouts "problems?" and why did they clear over half of them, but decide to suspend the other half? smells like beaurocratic incompetence to me, but that's just my educated .02 (yes, I've been in the testing pool before, I know how it works).

To me not missing a drug test would be priority 1 for an elite athlete, higher than not sleeping in and missing an olympic final. I'd do whatever I could to make sure testers knew where I was, including calling CONI's offices, emailing people, and not leaving my home if the system wasn't working. Can you explain how the testing pool works?

It's all you ever write about. In case you hadn't noticed, Renato Canova is a very sucessful coach who doesn't share your drug obsession.

And he doesn't accept that the drugs work. He is a very big man for going against the established pseudoscience. And he is not alone in his belief. Get your head out of the sand and see things another way.

here come the drug obsessives wrote:

It's all you ever write about. In case you hadn't noticed, Renato Canova is a very sucessful coach who doesn't share your drug obsession.

And he doesn't accept that the drugs work. He is a very big man for going against the established pseudoscience. And he is not alone in his belief. Get your head out of the sand and see things another way.

The sport is going through a doping scandal and cover-up that makes cycling's issues look like a drop in the ocean and I'm the one with my head in the sand?

Guessing there's no debating with crazy.

Canova used to say that no Kenyan would ever dope. He played the 'not in their nature' card. Now he plays the 'doesn't work anyway' card as it's been proven that doping in Kenya is rampant.

here come the drug obsessives wrote:

It's all you ever write about. In case you hadn't noticed, Renato Canova is a very sucessful coach who doesn't share your drug obsession.

And he doesn't accept that the drugs work. He is a very big man for going against the established pseudoscience. And he is not alone in his belief. Get your head out of the sand and see things another way.

Pseudoscience Jon? I asked you write about how the nervous system works in terms of running, and the only thing you could say was the word "adrenaline."

here come the drug obsessives wrote:

It's all you ever write about. In case you hadn't noticed, Renato Canova is a very sucessful coach who doesn't share your drug obsession.

And he doesn't accept that the drugs work. He is a very big man for going against the established pseudoscience. And he is not alone in his belief. Get your head out of the sand and see things another way.

His training is all about the springs.

Play fair, why do you write something without knowing ?

I never had anything to do with Meucci, who was coached by Principato till 4 years ago, and currently by Massimo Magnani, the Italian Technical Director.

Secondly, Meucci and all the other Italians were not accused of doping, but of not informing NADO (the Italian Antidoping Agency) about the update of their whereabouts.

Some athlete was superficial, but it's clear the communication between NADO and athletes didn't work : for example, Greco (triple jumper of 17.70) during the period in the eye of NADO for omission of infos about his whereabouts, had 4 different OOC tests from WADA, the same happened to Fabrizio Donato (bronze medal in London Olympics).

Meucci is an engineer, his character is very tranquil, he is a very precise and thoughtful person, is expert of computers, so I'm pretty sure he never was superficial (like some other, instead, could had been).

So, your last phrase is a total bullshit : Meucci didn't dope, and I never was his coach.

Trollism, blah-blah-blah....

Tell me some name of these mysterious "thousands busted", and add some name to the list I wrote above, I'm curious to see your "perfect" informations.

I accept that many kenyans (not a lot) are cheaters.

I accept that some drug can work (steroids, for example).

I continue to say that for the best talents, having proper training, EPO and every blood doping doesn't work.

Why Rita Jeptoo took EPO, if doesn't work ? For the same reason you can buy shares of a Company which goes bankrupt one month later : you SUPPOSED was a good action, the reality was the opposite.

The fact some stupid athlete can take doping, and can run fast, doesn't mean he could not achieve the same performance training in the best way, completely clean (this in long distances, not for example in throwing).

How can you say in the same post "I never had anything to do with Meucci" and "Meucci didn't dope" ?

How can you possibly have a meaningful opinion on Meucci's drug use if you have never had anything to do with him?

I used to have faith in your assertions, Renato, but it's like there's a giant wave drowning the sport and you keep saying we'll all be nice and dry. You have this faith in people no matter that they keep proving themselves corrupt. Why should we believe you anymore?

Because he didn't say Meucci never doped. He said she wasn't busted for doping, but for not being available for testing. Semantics, but important.

Why is letsrun so invested in chasing away the last coach who comes here publicly?

Renato Canova wrote:

Meucci didn't dope, and I never was his coach.

here he is saying Meucci didn't dope

But of course wrote:

Because he didn't say Meucci never doped. He said she wasn't busted for doping, but for not being available for testing. Semantics, but important.

Why is letsrun so invested in chasing away the last coach who comes here publicly?

Meucci didn't dope, and I never was his coach

But of course wrote:

Why is letsrun so invested in chasing away the last coach who comes here publicly?

I think people are really frustrated at the doping, and Renato has chosen to either deny it exists, say it doesn't work, say only a few people dope etc...Unfortunately he hasn't shown himself to be an accurate describer of what is going on so people are taking him to task. Fairly, it seems.

Renato could choose to write only on training and things would be a lot more civil - but he chooses to write about doping and as his assertions seem to be wrong...he gets abuse.

There is also a large segment of LRCers who like abusing people, especially well known people. It's just basic internet trolling and Renato shouldn't take them too seriously.