Difficulty lifting and running

Well, there's a 35 year old 3x a week runner who raw squats close to 800 lbs and runs a 4:15 mile and a 16 minute 5k at 230 lbs with a detached hamstring. What's your excuse?

You sound weak and like a bit of a quitter.

Anything new is hard at first. Keep going. Be smart about the scheduling.

Lifting is a waste of time if you want to run well. I was in your situation 12 years ago and haven't lifted since. I'm 50 now.

Recovery is important wrote:

Lifting is a waste of time if you want to run well. I was in your situation 12 years ago and haven't lifted since. I'm 50 now.

Yea, I'm thinking the same. When I was running 65-80mpw, I felt good just doing bodyweight lifts and lots of hill running.

Except the weight lifting is good injury prevention.

You will likely never PR then do a new max rep in the same week. That's never going to work. It reads like you are trying to do both well.

When you lift, do it over a couple of weeks. When you are lifting take the running volume and intensity down. Then lay off the gym for a few weeks bringing the volume and intensity up on the running. You should get some nice adaptation at the end of the running block.

Every body is different.

What's your end state? What's your goal? If your goal is running then lifting takes a back seat. You will be relatively weak while trying to lift with any intensity. The key is just making progress.

If you are running a lot and/running intensely then 1-2 days a week for 20-30 minutes is all you need and all you'll have time for. Pick a main lift, deadlift or squat. Focus there. Then follow with dips/pull-ups (weighted). That's it.

You are simply not going to be able to squat/deadlift 3x week with a serious running schedule.

Now, if you just run for fitness then decrease your running and then you can increase your lifting.

Also if you're that tired you need to eat more and schedule workouts so they don't interfere with each other.

Alan

Runningart2004 wrote:

What's your end state? What's your goal? If your goal is running then lifting takes a back seat. You will be relatively weak while trying to lift with any intensity. The key is just making progress.

If you are running a lot and/running intensely then 1-2 days a week for 20-30 minutes is all you need and all you'll have time for. Pick a main lift, deadlift or squat. Focus there. Then follow with dips/pull-ups (weighted). That's it.

You are simply not going to be able to squat/deadlift 3x week with a serious running schedule.

Now, if you just run for fitness then decrease your running and then you can increase your lifting.

Also if you're that tired you need to eat more and schedule workouts so they don't interfere with each other.

Alan

Thanks for responding Alan. My goal is to be good at running, and I'm looking at it as long term commitment so i can continue to run well into my old age. I do understand that I won't be able to lift much when I'm running a lot, but wondering if it's worth it to go to the gym to do not so heavy deadlift and some weighted dips, chins compared to just doing pushups and pullups at home. Would it be much of a benefit in terms of injury prevention and/or running performance?

Lifting and running together is hard and unlikely to succeed. It's not just you. Running tends to wipe out strength gains from lifting. But it's still good for injury prevention and a bit for running.

What are your goals here? Is the sole point of lifting to improve your running, or do you want to be strong in general too?

You sound like you're in the process of answering your own question, and you're answering it correctly.

If your focus is running, both in terms of improvement and longevity, then reduce the "lifting" side of your program to secondary and supplemental status. Either forget the gym completely, or go maybe once a week and just do a moderate workout.

Build yourself a couple different circut routines of body weight exercises you can do at home. If you do that smartly and consistently, you'll get both the supplemental training and injury prevention benefits without the systemic and muscle group fatigue that you're experiencing now.

There are plenty of good sources to consult for exercises and routines, both books and online. Do a little research on strength training for runners, focusing on the body weight stuff. There's a lot more to this than just doing some pushups and crunches after your runs.

Give yourself a total break from any strength work for a week or two while you do some reading. That will give you the recovery you seem to need right now. Once you've made the transition, you'll be amazed how much better you feel. Good luck.

How do others lift while running high mileage? Is there really any point of lifting light weight?

Can't lift and run wrote:

I'm a mid 30's hobby jogger who takes training seriously. I really have hard time lifting while running a lot. I've limited my lifts to just deadlift, chins, pull ups, and dips all weighted, but I feel weak and leave the gym in around 15 minutes bc I just don't feel like doing them.

I'm an experienced lifter where I've done heavy lifts in the past but that's while I'm not running. Also, when I got really into lifting, I've stopped running because I would get tired of running after few miles and not as enjoyable.

So, I seem to only do one or the other. If I'm taking running seriously, how much lifting to incorporate? Should I just do push ups and pull ups at home?

Your central nervous system, whether rightly or wrongly, will prevent you from having the energy to do both seriously as a protective mechanism. You can be one of those guys who thrives on being "well-rounded" and never reach your full potential in either running or lifting, or you can pick one or the other to focus on seriously.

I love both running and lifting, and in an ideal world, I would be out on the roads all day and in the gym at night. Unfortunately, lifting has taken a backseat to running, and its now just a twice-a-week hobby. I never do high-reps anymore either.

If you are torn between the two sports, become an obstacle course racer, because you need both speed and strength to do well in those races. That said, I think the "sport" element of obstacle racing will be nonexistent soon after that sub-elite triathalon guy just won the Spartan World Championships off of minimal "obstacle racing" training.

So here's something maybe Alan or others can help with. I've been lifting 2x per week (squat 3x5 and power clean 3x5) for several weeks now, and running good mileage. I'm making gradual progress on my lifts but the day after I lift my legs are just destroyed. Super sore, hard to run fast. I'm worried my running will suffer from it. Will this ever go away? Should I stop lifting so much, or change my program, so I don't get sore?

If optimizing your running is the primary goal, no lifting is going to help much. You need to run...and run. If maintaining the ability to run respectably and stay strong as you age is the goal, then you've gotta lift.

One thing you always see here are lifting programs that lay out every detail and tell you to do specific sets and reps. Bullshit. Get in there and crush the best you can for 20 mins. Done. Choose either deads or squats as the base exercise. Do your set. Instead of standing there for five minutes before the next one, do some push-ups, pull-ups, dips, planks, whatever floats your boat. Back to the barbell for another set. Continue for 20 mins and you'll be begging for a break. Doesn't need to be scientific folks, we're trying to gain functional strength. Even better would be to pick up non-symmetrical objects like sandbags. Mix in some plyos. Carry the heaviest Dumbbells you can find back and forth.

My greatest pet peeve of lifting for three decades is the guy who has a notebook, charts every rep, and actually lifts for about three minutes in an hour session.

When I ran D1 in college, we did 2 "lift" sessions per week supervised by a special trainer. Typically a session was 3 sets, with 2-3 subsets in those. Each subset had three sets of reps. We'd alternate between two different sessions each week (day 1/day 2), with increasing weight and reps until about 5 weeks had passed. Then we'd get a new plan, new exercises and repeat the process. Most of our exercises focused on strong shoulders (pull shoulders back = better upper body form), core, and ankle and hip stability. The only people doing heavy lifts (deadlifts, etc.) were sprinters, jumpers, and mid distance guys. It does tire you out. I tried to lift as close to my running as possible, so I could get my recovery time up. The only thing that helped was more rest, more food, and being mindful of how hard to push it. I never got any aches, pains, or injuries when I was lifting. It did help my speed strength quite a bit, especially towards the end of workouts, but it didn't vastly improve my aerobic endurance by any means. The greatest benefit was from the stability work, which reduced injury and improved form, which made me more efficient. I will say that I never got "tingly" arms when racing ever again.

problemy runner wrote:

So here's something maybe Alan or others can help with. I've been lifting 2x per week (squat 3x5 and power clean 3x5) for several weeks now, and running good mileage. I'm making gradual progress on my lifts but the day after I lift my legs are just destroyed. Super sore, hard to run fast. I'm worried my running will suffer from it. Will this ever go away? Should I stop lifting so much, or change my program, so I don't get sore?

You can't do both with high intensity and expect progress in both.

You are describing a very strenuous gym workout. Do not expect to run well the day (or 2 or 3) after a strenuous gym workout.

Elephino: I have my doubts? Are you stating you can free weight squat, give or take 790 pounds? You state you're 35. You state you weigh 230 pounds. You state you can run can run now a 4:15 mile. I WANT TO SEE A 35 YEAR OLD, 230 POUND MAN RUN A 4:15 MILE AND I WANT TO SEE YOU FREE WEIGHT SQUAT 790 POUNDS. I SAY B.S.! DO BOTH WITH 48 HOURS OF EACH OTHER.

ironside wrote:

Elephino: I have my doubts? Are you stating you can free weight squat, give or take 790 pounds? You state you're 35. You state you weigh 230 pounds. You state you can run can run now a 4:15 mile. I WANT TO SEE A 35 YEAR OLD, 230 POUND MAN RUN A 4:15 MILE AND I WANT TO SEE YOU FREE WEIGHT SQUAT 790 POUNDS. I SAY B.S.! DO BOTH WITH 48 HOURS OF EACH OTHER.

I didn't say it was me. There is someone who has claimed exactly what I said, repeatedly in writing, and is making good money as a trainer whose reputation comes primarily from those claims. But we cannot talk about him on this forum.

I hated lifting for a long time. Started doing lower reps (sets of 5, typically), and higher weight, and I enjoyed it a lot more, and got a lot stronger. I believe compound lifts with low reps/high weight are the best way to gain strength without putting on much weight (much bigger increases in strength/weight ratio than with other sorts of lifting.) If you're going to lift as a runner, this is what you need.

problemy runner wrote:

So here's something maybe Alan or others can help with. I've been lifting 2x per week (squat 3x5 and power clean 3x5) for several weeks now, and running good mileage. I'm making gradual progress on my lifts but the day after I lift my legs are just destroyed. Super sore, hard to run fast. I'm worried my running will suffer from it. Will this ever go away? Should I stop lifting so much, or change my program, so I don't get sore?

The goal of a runner's lifting program should be to maximize strength while reducing fatigue and balancing running with lifting.

If you are too sore the next day then your volume was too high and your rest too small.

If you do a squat or deadlift in sets of 5 then only do one max set. Example: 45x5, 95x5, 115x5, 135x5, 155x(failure between 4-6). 1-3 minutes between sets. Then once you can do 6 reps increase the weight by 5-10lbs the next workout. Perform pull-ups and dips as supplementary upper body exercises, 3 sets to failure.

After a month or two add in biz jumps or split jumps focusing on height and speed. 5-10 reps. 2-3 sets.

Power Cleans are fine and all but that in addition to squats is a lot of stress when you are already running a lot.

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Once a week is fine if twice a week causes too much fatigue. Lift on hard training days in the pm.

You people kill me with these crazy high intensity high volume or highly technical lifting routines. You're running at least an hour a day. Keep your lifting chill.

Alan