Congrats Chris Fox Sincerely Great Job, But Spare Us the "Regular Guys" Routine

Very rare for a regular guy to have that kind of success. Op the only one I can think of is Ricky Flynn.

Those guys were definitely fast HS guys, but do you think that maybe the coach was referring to them as "just regular guys" in their day-to-day life?

I ran with two Olympians when I was in college. One was kind of absolutely obsessed with the sport and did nothing but train and think about training, while the other was a normal person who dated, focused on school and didn't seem to focus on running much outside of practice.

I have nothing bad to say about either of the people, but there is a difference in the way you can approach a sport. Maybe the coach just meant that these guys are just fun-loving, normal dudes who happen to train really, really hard at practice.

Why does it even matter?

I'm a senior in PA, and I've been watching Kevin James run for a few years. Definitely not an average guy haha.

12.6 scholarships in distance area and 3 full-time distance coaches to recruit and develop. 10 years later on top of podium.

Knight ran 8:07/3:47 in grade 12.

How many of you believe when Fox says most of these guys were barely recruited? Yes I believe the 450 DIII coaches, the 200 DII coaches and the 150 D1 coaches looked at these times and said "not good enough to recruit any of these guys, based on their times they are just 'regular dudes' and they won't be able to help our program".

Colin Bennie only trained part of year and still ran 9:07 as a junior 1:52 800 leg as a sophomore as part of team that ran 7:36

Justyn Knight Canadian national HS champion, Silver medal at Pan Am 8:55 2M (8:15 3K)

Martin Hehir 9:00 2M

Joel Hubbard 4:07 as junior 9:12 1:52

Phil Germano 4:16 mile

Joe Kush 9:12 2M

Dan Lennon 8:59 4:15

TJ Hornberger 9:03 as junior 4:10 1:54

Nick Ryan 4:07 8:58

Kevin James 8:57 (9:14 as a soph)

Kevin Hoyos 9:08 4:12

Mickey Burke 9:00 4:13

Adam Palamar Canadian Junior National XC Champion

Juris Silenieks 9:14 as junior

Griffin Molino 4:14 9:16

Shawn Wilson 4:18 as junior

Andy Bennison 9:20 (8:40 3K)

Andrew Paladino 4:19

Simon Smith 9:22 4:22 as junior

Robert Hall 4:24

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6871251#ixzz3sLRW5f95

This. His comment was followed by "No drama whatsoever".

Long Johnny Silverado wrote:

Those guys were definitely fast HS guys, but do you think that maybe the coach was referring to them as "just regular guys" in their day-to-day life?

I ran with two Olympians when I was in college. One was kind of absolutely obsessed with the sport and did nothing but train and think about training, while the other was a normal person who dated, focused on school and didn't seem to focus on running much outside of practice.

I have nothing bad to say about either of the people, but there is a difference in the way you can approach a sport. Maybe the coach just meant that these guys are just fun-loving, normal dudes who happen to train really, really hard at practice.

Why does it even matter?

Perhaps average in relation to winning a national championship? There is a marked difference. Can someone compare Syracuse pr's versus the past 6 (pulling a number) champions? Last year Colorado had 3 sub 8:50 3200m guys and this year Stanford had 4 sub 8:50 guys off the top of my head.

I wonder if Syracuse finished 9th, 12th or 14th would there be comments like they choked or should have won the NCAA title with a roster like that? I am not sure but anything is possible around here.

Supper time. wrote:

Perhaps average in relation to winning a national championship? There is a marked difference. Can someone compare Syracuse pr's versus the past 6 (pulling a number) champions? Last year Colorado had 3 sub 8:50 3200m guys and this year Stanford had 4 sub 8:50 guys off the top of my head.

I wonder if Syracuse finished 9th, 12th or 14th would there be comments like they choked or should have won the NCAA title with a roster like that? I am not sure but anything is possible around here.

This.

Syracuse gets very good recruits every year. Footlocker finalists, several of them. They just don't get the "Footlocker champion types" that Oregon, Stanford and Colorado get. I'm too lazy to compare the rosters, but I'm sure someone else will get motivated enough. When they do, I think you'll see Syracuse gets more of the 9:0x/4:1x guys while Colorado, Stanford and Oregon have the 8:5x/4:0x (or even 3:5x) guys.

Several schools get the type of recruits Syracuse does, but don't win NCAAs. I'll bet a school like Princeton has similar HS PRs to Syracuse.

You just have a different definition of 'regular' than Chris Fox does. Maybe your regular guy runs 4:40 and 10:25 but a regular division 1 recruit certainly does not. Regular is a circumstantial term and none of Syracuse's runners beyond Knight (who Fox acknowledged as an exceptional recruit) were abnormal recruits for a scholarship program. Yes, in the context of collegiate running as a whole, Syracuse has a team of ridiculously talented recruits. But in the context of division 1 programs with double digit scholarships, they seem like a pretty 'regular' group to me.

You all act like there's a big difference. HS kids develop at different rates. These kids are basically the same with the exception of the top 1-2 kids in the nation.

The Animal Within wrote:

Been Around wrote:

This.

Syracuse gets very good recruits every year. Footlocker finalists, several of them. They just don't get the "Footlocker champion types" that Oregon, Stanford and Colorado get. I'm too lazy to compare the rosters, but I'm sure someone else will get motivated enough. When they do, I think you'll see Syracuse gets more of the 9:0x/4:1x guys while Colorado, Stanford and Oregon have the 8:5x/4:0x (or even 3:5x) guys.

Several schools get the type of recruits Syracuse does, but don't win NCAAs. I'll bet a school like Princeton has similar HS PRs to Syracuse.

You all act like there's a big difference. HS kids develop at different rates. These kids are basically the same with the exception of the top 1-2 kids in the nation.

Some of what you say is true and I'm sure Syracuse was blessed by some 9:0x guys or slower who didn't get great training in HS.

But in general, the type of talent we're talking about when comparing guys who run 4:09 vs 4:01 in high school is huge. Syracuse doesn't get the Matthew Matons, Grant Fishers, Edward Chesereks and Lukas Verzbickas' is what I'm saying.

And to their credit, Colorado doesn't get as many studs as Oregon and Stanford either.

What? Adam Palamar, the Canadian junior record holder at 1500m (faster than K Sullivan at the same age) has transferred to Syracuse?

Regular is all about your perspective. The Syracuse guys have very good high school PRs, as you would expect from a very good D1 program, but those times weren't getting the vast majority of them nationally recruited or by the elite programs like Oregon who only go after the very best.

Only Ryun, Byers and Webb went faster than Palamar at 1500m as a junior in the history of North American Track and Field. Of course, he has been injured ever since (same as Fernandez, Byers...), but...

He is not your average guy.

It's actually 'worse' than than you depict. Meaning, some guys are just XC monsters and 'so so' on the track. Check out the XC times / results of the guys with 'unimpressive' track times. They're very strong.

Ex. Philo Germano was a NXN Nationals Qualifier. He was also sub 15 for 3 mile XC and won his NY Section 2 XC Championship. Not a 'regular guy' by knowledgeable distance running enthusiasts definition.

Fox has definitely developed his talent. But agree that he should lose the 'regular guy' thing. It really only applies vs Oregon and Stanford. So every other school can make the same claim. His talent is comparable to Colorado, Wisco, Michigan, etc.

2005 - Why Syracuse hire Chris Fox? oh god, going distance?

2006 - Dream on about competing in the big east boys. start shoveling.

2007 - they'll never make nationals.

2008 - they are pretenders every year. stop with the distance model.

2009 - they got lucky at big east and finished 15th at ncaas. big whoop.

2010 - they've hit their ceiling.

2011 - same year same results. go away.

2012 - Always peaking at conferences. Can't run track or fast or when it counts.

2013 - syracuse fanboys talk them up every year. they're not so good. old news.

2014 - syrachoke. and now Erb left. Nice knowing you.

2015 1:00pm 11/21 - no depth. bad coaching. pretenders. can't beat the powers. choke artists.

2015 1:35pm 11/21 - of course they won. who wouldn't with that roster?

That is not a regular roster. That is an absolutely loaded roster. There are 11 blue chip recruits on that roster. I'm reading McDonnell's book and he mentioned getting a 4:07 or 9:10 guy out of high school like striking gold. Those were the guys he looked for domestically. Now he also had his stud foreigners that he nailed but that roster has the same^. Congrats to him. I'm actually happy to see a resurgence in domestic recruiting among the top teams.

The difference in talent between a 8:50 and 9:0's guy is probably negligible. Definitely with all these high school kids going to major meets now and getting pulled through.

I have a theory that high school running hasn't improved as much as the statistics show. Yes, it's better. Coaches are more knowledgeable thanks to places like LetsRun (primarily LetsRun). However, there are way more kids headed out to places like Mt. Sac, and other premier west coast races. More Texas kids and surrounding going to Texas relays. More high schoolers at Penn. Just 10 years ago unless you were a 9:teens at the slowest you ran your PR at your state meet and that was it. There's probably a ton of 9:30 HS'ers that could be pulled on to a sub 9:20.

For instance, the young man I coached that ran 9:22 and 4:18. His 9:22 was in April. He had a kid switch laps with him until 2 laps to go. That kid ran 9:31. His 4:18 was all-out for a state championship win, with a 60.- last 400, in 95 degree heat (no exaggeration). In the 3200 he ran 9:25 and led it from the gun, in upper 80's heat. The state meet record was 9:24 and he wanted to give it a shot.

My point being, had these races been paced and on the west coast with ideal weather, he would have ran 4:15 or under and 9:10-15ish probably.