Jennifer Simpson (Barringer) - 2009 WC steeplechase medalist

1st, 2nd, and 4th should be DQ'd and Jenny would be moved up to 2nd!! This would make her a 3x World Medalist.. Quite impressive.

This is awesome, I really hope those bans happen. It sucks that there are so many people who have been denied their day on the podium.

There is no substitute for standing on the podium. Many of these people moved up never see a medal either. The only thing they get is a results change on a web site. That likely won't translate to more appearance money or get them the original prize money. They lost out and there is really no fixing it. It is a real shame. There should be criminal prosecution and lawsuits that leave these people destitute. As long as they can cheat and keep their earnings, there is no stopping it.

^^ This x10

AW Pharmacy wrote:

^^ This x10

Agreed. I have what I consider to be a relatively simple solution to the doping culture that exists, but for some reason, it will never get implemented. Maybe it isn't good "politically". This might not be the right thread for this, but I'll put it here anyway:

Lifetime bans. No ifs, ands, or buts. Doesn't matter if you "cooperate". You test positive, you are done. You are a professional athlete, and you should know what you are putting in your body. Something in a grey area and it could maybe cause you to test positive? Guess what, don't take it!

Second, if you test positive, your results are retroactively erased going all the way back to when you started competing. As if you never even ran. Almost every time an athlete tests positive, assuming they don't just outright deny it altogether, they say "oh I just started doping right before this one race, all the rest were clean".

Third, repayment of all winnings and appearance fees going back forever. Frankly, if I was a race director today, I would already include that as a clause with any elite athletes at my race, with the stipulation that any winnings clawed back would be transferred to the athletes who moved up in the results due to the DQ. What WMM runner would cheat knowing that at any point in their life, they may be liable for repayment of $500,000+?

Fourth, no statute of limitations on testing. Keep samples frozen for as long as you can, and every time some new test comes out, go back and test everything. Does that cause a beloved gold medalist from 15 years ago to test positive? Too bad. Some guy had to go home in 4th place thinking he just missed a medal.

I know this isn't a perfect plan, but at least to me, it seems like a significant step in the right direction compared to what the sport is doing today. Harsh as it may be, show me one completely clean athlete that would reject this.

Admittedly, there is no way to fix the ultimate theft, which is the experience of standing on the podium with your national anthem playing, but if you put legitimate deterrents in place, and not just a slap on the wrist, it might just be enough of a risk that it isn't worth it to cheat, knowing that at any point you could lose everything.

Great ideas, but as you indicated, makes far too much sense to ever get implemented.

Incredibly draconian, and exactly what is needed.

Dopers are the terrorists of the athletic world. So far we have given them wrist slaps, provided loopholes, coddled and protected their doping culture, and accepted bribery and extortion as part of playing the game.

If I was an athlete and I lined up next to a convicted doper who was reinstated, I would turn and spit at their feet while the camera ran by. Until we develop a backbone as athletes, coaches and managers, this sh*t will only get worse.

teddy_farley wrote:

Lifetime bans. No ifs, ands, or buts. Doesn't matter if you "cooperate". You test positive, you are done. You are a professional athlete, and you should know what you are putting in your body. Something in a grey area and it could maybe cause you to test positive? Guess what, don't take it!

Agreed. There seems to be this bizarre entitlement mentality to allowing athletes back into competition after testing positive. In any other job (it is a job) when you commit the cardinal offense, you are done. Out. Somehow in track and field it's understood that every "deserves" a second chance. Everyone "deserves" to compete. Everyone "deserves" to continue to get paid for something they cheated at.

Instead, they should accept their punishment and get packing. Find another job; find another life.

Have to wonder if she had medaled in 2009 would she have given up the steeple ?

I'm definitely for lifetime bans, and I don't see any valid argument against them.

One argument is just that the tests may yield false positives, particularly if the samples are mishandled or old.

In most cases, there's no doubt, though, so go ahead and ban them for life and claw back the money and cancel the results from the beginning of their competing. What a shame for Simpson, Montano and so many others to be deprived of their medals by cheaters and testosterone producers.

Looks like it was a bad meet for Russia (or maybe on the site they've already removed some of the banned cheaters?). But there's Semenya with a 1:55.45, pre-hormone treatment, winning by almost 2.5 seconds in the first year of competition.

I do not understand why athletes finishing behind dopers cannot sue them for fraud and lost wages/damages. Can the Court of Arbitration in Sport adjudicate these cases? They should.

We can't beat them on the track, so let's DQ them with bogus drug tests woohoo.

This proves we're a country of losers woohoo.

Mango wrote:

I do not understand why athletes finishing behind dopers cannot sue them for fraud and lost wages/damages. Can the Court of Arbitration in Sport adjudicate these cases? They should.

Wouldn't this depend on what nations are involved?

If Russian tests positive at a meet in Paris and an American sues, who has the jurisdiction?

I agree with all the opinions here. Although I DO like the second chance- the test COULD be flawed.

runn wrote:

I agree with all the opinions here. Although I DO like the second chance- the test COULD be flawed.

The tests are not flawed. It's possible to test positive by taking something inadvertently, either because you didn't know what was in it (your responsibility as an athlete) or contamination (again your responsibility to buy from a certified source). I suspect the frequency of this happening innocently are quite small relative to the times it's claimed after someone gets busted for something probably done intentional (Gay, Merritt, Montsho, Powell, Simpson and most recently the Florida quarterback). And I suppose sabotage, either being slipped something or something slipped into you sample is also possible (Ben Johnson, Bauman, Gatlin or Salazar), but to me just sounds like paranoid nonsense. But the tests themselves are very precise, and the chances of a false positive are astronomically small, nigh negligible. They are designed so there are many more false negatives than false positives. Even in the case of mishandled samples, a delay in processing (Lagat, Ryan Braun) does not magically make urine manifest itself into a synthetic chemical.

I'm open to a second chance, but only after a lengthy suspension, annulment of ALL results prior to the positive test, paying back of all prize money and returning all medals won. An if you're a guy, everyone you cheated out of money and medals gets to kick you in the nuts.

I am frankly tired of the Mantanos and Wrights of the world whining on social media about missing their chance. Boo - freakin- hoo.

Guess what Entitled Athlete - life isn't fair. complaining about it on social media makes you look like you are making excuses for failure.

Yes, dopers suck and rob people of their chance, but incessantly posting about it on twitter does nothing. Everyone in the race was affected, every "clean" athlete was cheated. You aren't special.

I know people who cheating on high school tests or college tests and got better grades. That led to more opportunities for them. You don't see me posting about it Twitter at every turn.

This is the whiner generation.

Says he who never won a significant race in his life.

Whiner go home wrote:

I am frankly tired of the Mantanos and Wrights of the world whining on social media about missing their chance. Boo - freakin- hoo.

Guess what Entitled Athlete - life isn't fair. complaining about it on social media makes you look like you are making excuses for failure.

Yes, dopers suck and rob people of their chance, but incessantly posting about it on twitter does nothing. Everyone in the race was affected, every "clean" athlete was cheated. You aren't special.

I know people who cheating on high school tests or college tests and got better grades. That led to more opportunities for them. You don't see me posting about it Twitter at every turn.

This is the whiner generation.

teddy_farley wrote:

Admittedly, there is no way to fix the ultimate theft, which is the experience of standing on the podium with your national anthem playing, but if you put legitimate deterrents in place, and not just a slap on the wrist, it might just be enough of a risk that it isn't worth it to cheat, knowing that at any point you could lose everything.

Agreed. All this above, the theft of the experience is heart-wrenching, but I think a lot of people are forgetting how far down the line this harms athletes' careers. Not only would the absence of the cheater affect the podium positions, but most likely the race, itself. The tactics and positioning throughout the race, and even the make-up of the starting line. Without the eventual doper, the line-up for a final (plus, semis) would inevitably be different. Sadly, the first man/woman out of the final will never get that opportunity back, either.