my journey to sub-2h30 Marathon. help me with workouts

Here's the basic structure I've followed that's worked well for me

90-100 miles weekly minimum mileage

18-22 miles weekly/biweekly long runs

Long LT/threshold workouts (Long progression runs/Fartliks, 8-12 mile tempos, 3x3miles, 4-5x2 miles, 8-10xCruise Miles, etc)

First step would be to get to about 15:30 / 32:30. You aren't going to break 2:30 no matter what kind of magic workouts you dream up without getting your overall ability better.

2:37:12 is 10secs/kilo away from 2:30:00 and that makes :50 over the course of the 5k. So you are going to have to reach a level in the 5k/10k/half-mara that you never reached before.

A 2:30 is FOUR 35:30 10ks in a row and then some.

Also, it is unrealistic to attempt this 2:30 race in July or August. Maybe Grandma's Marathon would be a good place if you really feel you have to do it by August, but otherwise look for a Fall marathon. A faster one.

The Angel of Death wrote:

Here's the basic structure I've followed that's worked well for me

90-100 miles weekly minimum mileage

18-22 miles weekly/biweekly long runs

Long LT/threshold workouts (Long progression runs/Fartliks, 8-12 mile tempos, 3x3miles, 4-5x2 miles, 8-10xCruise Miles, etc)

^

Do this. It will probably take 2 years. Spring or Fall 2017

Be consistent. Stay healthy.

a guy who ran 2:37 off of 70 mpw max doesnt need to run 90-100 to hit 2:30

IMHO, it'll take OP longer than end of 2016 to break 2:30, but def. in 2017.

my advice: build up slowly, but surely. try to be averaging 80 mpw by the april or so, while focusing on 5k/10k. like another poster said, you will need about 32 flat 10k ability or a little slower to run under 2:30. once you hit 80 mpw consistently, maybe mess around with 90 mpw but keep it around there, trying to improve the quality of your running at that point. until you are at 70-80 mpw, it barely matter what workouts you are doing. i'd recommend just getting on some sort of schedule, like a 4 week cycle or something so you can have a variety of workouts while checking progress. keep any workouts at a easy effort until you are running 70 mpw

forget about the marathon, and even the half marathon, until summer of next year. you will need to run under 71min to have a decent shot at breaking 2:30, so thats about 5:25/mi for 13.1 miles, or 2+ 10ks in about 33:50s back to back.

be reasonable, don't rush into things, and update your goals to reflect your actual progress and not your intended progress.

guys, thank you very much for the great advices.

i totally agree with you that i need to improve my overall 5K and 10K in order to reach it.

i also know it looks pretty optimistic to have a shot by august next year, but at the same time it is not completely out of mind so I will be training to do it.

i plan to do it from june to august because I am in South America.

also, when I ran 2h37, 70 miles/week was the max I achieved, but most of my weeks I was averaging 55-60 miles.

Agreed with the point that going up to 80 can take me to the next level.

lets do it. I will update this thread every sunday until the race.

I agree that August/July is a shitty time to run a sub 2:30, but I wouldn't recommend Grandma's. Last year the weather was pretty shitty and on top of that the course is a bit hilly from what I hear. Plus, it's in Minnesota. If you're going to go somewhere for a marathon might as well go somewhere relevant. Ok, that was my attempt at sarcasm, but really you might consider the Eugene Marathon (it was held in May a few times, but I believe it's back to July). Pancake flat. My friend has (Current) Prs of 15:18, 31:30, and 1:10 at the time he ran Eugene in 2:25. This was largely off 60 MPW with a few peak weeks of 70. He is much more of a marathoner than a middle distance guy.

This guy^^^ has the right idea, but keep in mind the 5k/10k use absolutely different energy systems than the marathon will. It's important to keep your eye on your 5k/10k fitness as a measure of your marathon training plan (as like the poster said you should improve your 5k/10k times) but I don't think it's necessary to focus on dropping 5k/10k times to run sub 2:30. Once you get a big marathon base going I bet you'll surpass your old PRs even at shorter distances.

I've also got sub 2:30 on my radar, but I'm 24 and it's too much work. Ran 2:33 at CIM (which is probably the best course for a PR) off of about 60 miles a week and XC style training. I've since only run 2:46 on a decent course but with a lot less training. I think the thing to keep in mind is that you'd have to be all in to get sub 2:30 with consistent high volume and minimal breaks/distractions while avoiding overtraining-burnout. I recommend not having a girlfriend. She will only keep you weak.

I've got a similar goal. I'm targeting a marathon next year and am looking to beef up from 50-60mpw to 60-70, with the focus on increasing mileage steadily so that my body doesn't break down on me. I think my pie in the sky goal will be to break 2:30.

Recently ran 32:37 at a local 10k, by myself the entire way. If I had a really good 10k I could see myself being in ~ 32:00 shape.

What I am really curious about, and this is more for the other posters, what are the best workouts to be doing? What does a typical marathon training cycle look like?

I'm expecting long Sunday runs, and then maybe workouts similar to those suggested the The Angel of death within the week? (I typically do workouts on Tuesday and Thursday).

How do you progress from week to week?

third week was as it follows.

monday: off

tuesday: am easy 5 / pm: ran a 10k in 37:30, progressive. 19:10 first 5k, 18:20 second 5k, felt easy

wednesday: 11 easy

thursday: 8 easy

friday: am: 4 sets of a Mile, average 5:25 and rest 1:30. Felt no so bad

satuday: 8 easy

sunday: 13 miles easy

total: ~ 57 miles

Out of interest, at what pace did you do your 13 mile run?

Is your plan to up the distance of this Sunday run?

AlsoSortaQuick wrote:

Out of interest, at what pace did you do your 13 mile run?

Is your plan to up the distance of this Sunday run?

about 6:45 avg. Easy runs are done really easy, and I do not track the pace. they probably stay in the range of 7:30-8:00, sometimes should be even over 8:00 (when i double for instance). If i am in good mood and not so tired maybe they get close to 7:00.

i see myself running up to 22 miles in these long runs, but i want to increase gradually. I dont mind running the same distance for consecutive weeks if the total volume is good.

I have finished my 4th week. More committed than ever with my goal of sub 2h30. Still far away from what i consider "back to good shape" but building up stronger and stronger.

monday: 9 easy

tuesday: ran 5.5k in the morning in 18:44 (splits of 9:35 and 9:19 each half). 8 easy miles pm.

wednesday: am: 4 easy pm: 8 easy

thursday: ran 4 x 2000, first in 6:57, then 6:52, 6:48 and 6:45, 02 min int)

friday: 9 easy

saturday: off

sunday: 15 miles in 2h

total: ~61 miles

this week my volume will decrease because i will compete on sunday. A 5K race. It will be a good measure of where I am right now. Today i ran easy 8 miles. Tomorrow will run a fast 3k and thursday some 400 reps.

Will try to get close to 16:30 on sunday, but i believe 16:45-50 is more realistic.

I plan to drop that to under 16 until the end-march. Then train heavily on april/may/june to get a 15:50 down to 15:30. This way I believe I will be ready for a shot on 2h29 on August. I believe if I reach 15:30 level I can run 32:15 for 10K and 71:30 for Half Marathon.

Good luck with the 5k. I hope to see you keep posting here, it'll be fun to see your progress.

keep it up wrote:

Good luck with the 5k. I hope to see you keep posting here, it'll be fun to see your progress.

I will. I promise. Unless I get injured I don't see myself stopping on having a shot. And then, If i get the 2h29, who knows?

I might end up running the 16:40 on sunday. Today ran 2.7k (about 1.7 miles) in 8:40. It was hard. Would end up running something like 9:35-:40 for the 3k. I could run 9:15 two years ago, but thinking optimistically, I am not that far from that level.

Lets see how it goes thursday as I will do some 400 reps before the race.

Be careful not to do too many workouts, you can gain more from just doing some mileage such as 60 minute runs at moderate pace.

Also, do you really think you could run 71:30 with just 15:30 fitness? 71min seems much better than 15:30

71:30 and 15:30 are actually pretty close assuming someone is equally trained for both distances. Unless you are endurance oriented over speed, I'd say most 71:30 guys would be sub 15:20.

all of them between 2012 and 2014. Never ran more than 70 miles/week.

This is my goal too. Here are my stats

45 years old, PRs: 18:56 5k, 40:12 10k, 1:30:34 Half, 3:19 Marathon.

I started that journey in 2008. That year I went from 2:44 to 2:32, with about 80-90 miles per week. I gave up that dream and this 2015 I came back with a 2:37 (first sub 2:40 since 2009) in april and a 2:34 last Sunday. 2016 will tell if I can go 2:30 or not, but surely it will be one of my last chances, being 37 right now.

I think that the key is consistency over time. Real improvement is not a question of weeks, not even months, but years.

reed wrote:

Be careful not to do too many workouts, you can gain more from just doing some mileage such as 60 minute runs at moderate pace.

Also, do you really think you could run 71:30 with just 15:30 fitness? 71min seems much better than 15:30

Knowing myself, i honestly believe yes.

I could barely go under 16 for the 5k, but managed to run 32:45 for 10k (and 2 others sub 33). My best Half is 73:53 but that was not exactly a smart race as I had a positive split of over one minute. I believe I could have lowered 30s to that.

I see myself running:

15:30 5k

32:15 10k (splits of like 16:10 and 16:05).

71:30 Half (splits of 17:00 or barely under for each 5k).

With a 71:30 Half and high volume, I see myself with a shot of splitting 75:00 and then trying to negative for a few seconds.

I know it looks very hard and it is, but certainly not impossible.

just discovered that sunday race is 6k and not 5k.

will try to get as close as possible to 20:00. Probably passing the 5k slightly under 17:00 and then trying to kick in the end.