Arne Gabius German Record 2:08:32

Agree. I just looked him up. Looks like he was a 3k-5k guy who had a nice breakthrough a few years ago to reach 13:12 and now he excels at longer distance. It is promising for other runners with similar times. Plus it looks like he is tall.

I hope we avoid doping accusations.

Excellent run. Good run from Callum Hawkins too with 2:12:17, 4th fastest Scot on the all-time list

He certainly went for it with a 63:23 first half. Almost paid the price for the early pace but managed to beat the previous record by 14 seconds. Sub 2:08 should be possible in the future.

Splits:

05km 00:15:08 15:08

10km 00:30:10 15:02

15km 00:44:59 14:49

20km 01:00:05 15:06

Half 01:03:23 03:18

25km 01:15:15 11:52

30km 01:30:35 15:20

35km 01:46:09 15:34

40km 02:01:52 15:43

Finish 02:08:33 06:41

Immature pacing. Probably cost him a 2:07.

roelants wrote:

I hope we avoid doping accusations.

What does that even mean?

In fact, you just stared one.

Germany has a bad history of doping like they think they're allowed too. Male distance runners no exception to that.

Gabius is a doctor, right?

roelants wrote:

Agree. I just looked him up. Looks like he was a 3k-5k guy who had a nice breakthrough a few years ago to reach 13:12 and now he excels at longer distance. It is promising for other runners with similar times. Plus it looks like he is tall.

I hope we avoid doping accusations.

You don't think Lopes and Jones showed that this sort of 5k speed was sufficiently promising?

roelants wrote:

I hope we avoid doping accusations.

Great coaching with plan of attack and appropriate fitness to execute.

He fell a little short of his 2:07 plan but got the German record and showed promise of running much faster.

Congrats to Arne and his anti-EPO adviser Renato Canova! Germany, now surging ahead in diesel vehicle efficiency and male marathoning efficiency.

Nice! Pretty sure he also ran like 8:11 for 2 miles indoors a few years ago when he had a breakout season.

yeah whatever,...didn't have to wait long until a letsrun troll is talking bullshit.

Maybe you try to be ironic, instead you are only pathetic.

Yes, Arne is a doctor. But he's the only doctor who is a runner of international level, too. And is one of the few doctors knowing the effects of training, on the contrary of a lot of doctors knowing the effects of doping only.

Knowing the effects of training, he well knows that BLOOD DOPING CAN'T ADD ANYTHING TO HIS PHYSIOLOGY, AND CAN'T HELP TO REACH HIS BEST PERFORMANCES.

The most part of people speaking about doping, including many "scientists" of antidoping, don't know anything about training. When an African athlete running for 3 years 2:18 in Marathon suddenly runs 2:08, everybody thinks about doping. Instead, for the previous 3 years this guy trained only once per day, and didn't eat because did'nt have food enough. So, after 3 years one athlete in some training camp asks him to go for pacing, and finally he can eat 3 times per day, training twice or 3 times, and after 6 months improves his PB of 10 minutes.

Everytime there is some improvement, here in Letsrun nobody thinks that the athlete had a change of training, because not all the athletes are well trained : for running at international level, you can't use the same phylosophy of amateurs of athletes running for their College.

In the case of Arne, born in 1981, he was able running 1500m in 3'44" already in 2002, but his PB was in 2014 (3'41"17), when was already in training for longer distances. In 3000m, he was till 2011 an athlete for 7'50", and had his skip of quality in 2012 with 7'35"43. The same in 5000m : already able running 13'33" in 2005, he moved very little his PB during the next 6 years, with a pick of 13'26"69 in 2008, and in 2011 ran 13'32" only. So, for many people his jump to 13'13"33 in 2012, and 13'12"50 in 2013, was something suspicious, clearly product of some doping.

Instead, the story of Arne is very different. In 2011, he started to go Kenya, in Iten, and could see how the best Kenyans were used to train. He joined sometimes the Group of my athletes, and changed completely mentality, learning how to build a right feeling with his body, and how to use more intensity in training.

Last year, we spoke to start prepare Marathon. His Spring was not good, because he had some physical problem, but from July recovered full health, and the preparation for his first Marathon was ok. This year the situation was better, and really there was the technical possibility to run under 2:08.

We spoke two weeks before the race about the tactic to use.

Arne had two options : to run for the best possible time, using two personal pacers at a right pace of 3'02" per km, going at HM in 64' and trying a negative split increasing his pace after 35 km (this was the easier choice, and also the best looking at time), or to use the race for a total and full experience, staying "inside the race" for learning how a top Marathon is managed by Adfrican runners.

We chose the second option, thinking that, in spite of the risk, the main goal (German Record) could be achieved.

Arne had problems, after 28 km, in one leg, and was not correct in the running technique, forcing on one hip : this fact obliged him to reduce the pace. However, it's important he didn't have any problem of fuel, and, under this point of view, could have the possibility to run faster.

As doctor, he very well knows that the credibility of data as hematocrit is very little, since there are too many small variables influencing the final values, without a proper protocol.ù

For example, if you clench the tourniquet less or more, and for few or more seconds, when you take blood from the vein of the forearm you can have a difference of 2-3 points of Hct.

I had a test with a Group of 20 athletes of Italian Team, years ago (10 males, 10 females). Doctors took blood, for everybody, while standing, and after 20 minutes while seated, and after other 20 minutes while lying : obviously, the blood was the same, but the different of the values, after the test in the lab, was (average) of 4.2 points for men, and 3.6 points for women, about hematocrit.

Arne puts on line ALL THE BLOOD TEST HE HAD WITH WADA AND IAAF, giving the official data that he can know from his Adams program (the program of whereabout from IAAF). All top athletes can (and must) use this program, and everybody can Always know the results of the antidoping tests carried out, using a personal password (nobody else can go to see, because of the law about privacy). I think he is the only athlete doing this : other athletes put on line private tests, or only some data, but not the full tests like Arne.

So, instead to be a pathetic idiot thinking to be ironic, it's better you know what are you speaking about. Normally, who speaks about something he doesn't know, makes a fool of himself.

As always, I appreciate that you come here to address your critics.

You and I have gone back and forth before, but that's not why I'm posting now.

What do you think causes the difference in values between collection methods? Do you have any published studies showing the same phenomenon?

I'm curious also about Arne's training. You've said before his debut last year that the concern was the quick turnaround from his track form to his goal marathon. What changed this cycle? This might be available on the internet, but when has Arne trained in Kenya? Where does he train when in Germany (if he trains at home)? How do you expect to change his preparation for future marathons as he adds more and more experience. (Any thoughts on his goals for 2016 Rio?)

Duh, forgot my first question.

What is the margin of error on blood tests?

Renato, can you post Arne Gabius' training in the months leading up to his 2:08 marathon? A lot of top Americans would like to see how a 13:12 5k runner moves from 2:10 to 2:08!

Arne has some training log:

http://www.arnegabius.de/training/index.html

When you click on "transparency" you can also see some OFF-Score values from last year.

Some knowledge of German would'nt be bad ;-)

what's a midget?

Kamiel Maase Record for The Netherlands 2:08:21 Kamiel is 1.90M tall.

Clerk, also if we sometimes are in different positions, I Always appreciate to have with you some discussion, because you are one of the most educated persons in Letsrun.

If we can have a difference of about 4 points of Hct (for example, 44 - 48 depending on the system doctors took blood and on the tourniquet), the margin of error is about 10%.

For what I saw during a lot of antidoping controls, and also during normal and private tests when doctors take blood, nobody uses the same system, and we can find differences among different labs not only because type and calibration of the machines is different, but also because the taking of samples is carried out in different ways.

However, I don't think we can have differences during the lab's tests in any authorized lab for antidoping. In these cases, I suppose all labs use the same system and calibration. Instead, the difference in the way to take samples is evident, if you follow many controls, both out of competition and after the race.

For example, in Kenya the most part of taking of samples is carried out near the track, with athletes standing, sometimes immediately after a tough training. This because the best way for finding the athletes is to go not in their house (sometimes very difficult to find for doctors coming from South Africa), but directly on the track, normally on Tuesday (which is the day when 80% of athletes go track). This happens few times, because normally there are in Kenya a lot of antidoping samples, but with urine only (when they want to take blood samples, there are doctors of Wada coming from South Africa).

About the difference, I advise you to try directly, so you can appreciate the difference with normal people, due to different protocols only.

Renato Canova wrote:

Yes, Arne is a doctor. But he's the only doctor who is a runner of international level, too.

Roger Bannister, Bob Kempainen, Curtis Robb, Thomas Wessinghage, Daniel Lincoln, Marius Bakken, just to name a few.