So.... Anybody going to talk about the fact Deena had pacers?

Chicago does not HIRE pacers for the elite fields. They don't ban them entirely. This does not stop anyone from bringing his or her own, which is, I imagine, what happened here. How is Deena bringing a few pacers any different than you helping your office buddy for 20mi at BQ pace? I imagine they also have pacers for the hobby joggers, as do most major marathons.

Maybe it was just the 2:30 pace group, and they ran a little fast. Was one of the guys holding a sign?

One of my buddies was one of the guys that ran with Deena for ~20 miles. He was aiming for mid-2:20s, saw Deena around 5k, and figured 1) it would be really cool to run with Deena Kastor and 2) she would probably run smart/even splits. I guess a bunch of other guys had the same idea. He said there were 10+ guys at halfway, but only ~4 after about 16 miles. I don't think any of the guys were friends with Deena.

might be wejo wrote:

One of my buddies was one of the guys that ran with Deena for ~20 miles. He was aiming for mid-2:20s, saw Deena around 5k, and figured 1) it would be really cool to run with Deena Kastor and 2) she would probably run smart/even splits. I guess a bunch of other guys had the same idea. He said there were 10+ guys at halfway, but only ~4 after about 16 miles. I don't think any of the guys were friends with Deena.

I had a buddy that ran with her for ~19 miles or so (he went on to finish in 2:30). Leading up to the race, he was all about sub-2:30, then a few weeks before, adjusted to 2:32, and during the race, happened to be running with Deena and said the exact same thing. He thought if anyone was going to run even, it was gonna be her.

Men tend to run in packs around the elite women - it just happens. They know that these women, especially masters runners, tend to run evenly paced races and that they'll probably have a good race by sticking with them, even if that means leading. We've even seen the occasional male idiot running in the lead women's elite packs before. (And did you notice that the women's winner in Chicago caught a guy with a mile to go ... and he miraculously found another gear to finish next to her?) If they're not intentionally interfering with other female runners - apart from benefiting the paced runner in a general way - then it's fine. People also act like the men do all the leading. That's definitely not always the case - women often break up the packs or push the pace just like they would in any race, but that's a dumb tactical move if everything is going smoothly in a pack.

You're still eligible for a women's Master's record with male pacing ... Just like you're eligible for national records, OTQ's, PRs, and everything but the world record. The decision to run with the men or in a women's only elite start is something that the female runners think about when choosing races - they know they'll get some help from the men but that the race dynamic will probably change. Nobody in the race should be complaining about how it plays out unless there's interference, even if the pacing was deliberate.

Two of the guys in her alleged "pacers" group were south Florida runners and the other was a runner from Orlando. Not one of them know her personally (and I know two of them personally and I know of the one from Orlando through them). I just think this is coincidence.

OP, you did not title this thread accurately.

It should have been, "Anybody going to talk about the fact that several men had Deena as a pacer?"

Braggart wrote:

OP, you did not title this thread accurately.

It should have been, "Anybody going to talk about the fact that several men had Deena as a pacer?"

+1

so it turns out she was the pacer O.o

Braggart wrote:

OP, you did not title this thread accurately.

It should have been, "Anybody going to talk about the fact that several men had Deena as a pacer?"

Pacers don't run behind those they are pacing.

It appeared that way to me. It didn't cross my mind that those weren't her pacers when I saw that pack. The pack was bigger, but about 3 seemed to be pacers.

Colleen Dereuck got the previous record during the 2005 Chicago Marathon. I believe Kim Gillard ran with her the entire way and paced her to the record. She also got 4th overall. Ironically, Deena won that year with a 2:21 and a close finish over Constantina Dita.

Quit being a knob. You honestly don't have your own business to worry about? I know a guy like you. He's not fun to be around.

I want to know more about Pappas. Why was she there? Last year she paced the group that included Lisa Uhl I think. So sounds like she was probably there as an officially hired pacer.

This is a separate issue from Deena. Even if Pappas had nothing to do with her, what was she doing there pacing when Chicago made it such a point they weren't hiring any pacers?

Pappas what? wrote:

I want to know more about Pappas. Why was she there? Last year she paced the group that included Lisa Uhl I think. So sounds like she was probably there as an officially hired pacer.

This is a separate issue from Deena. Even if Pappas had nothing to do with her, what was she doing there pacing when Chicago made it such a point they weren't hiring any pacers?

Perhaps she used her previous connection with the race staff and asked if she could run through half-way to simulate a marathon race situation for her eventual debut. It's really not that hard, man. Like a true professional, perhaps she wants to do as much as she can to prepare. Wouldn't you?

They all had pacers. Look at Fatass Kiplagat - pacer the whole way and I'm pretty sure he was the one who paced her in a half marathon as well. They did pretty well to keep them out of shot to pretend they weren't there - but they were.

Everyone except the winner has pacers the whole way.

Ball Zack wrote:

Perhaps she used her previous connection with the race staff and asked if she could run through half-way to simulate a marathon race situation for her eventual debut. It's really not that hard, man. Like a true professional, perhaps she wants to do as much as she can to prepare. Wouldn't you?

You mean just like Mo did? That would make way too much sense. Let's just burn down Deena's house instead.

Ball Zack wrote:

Pappas what? wrote:

I want to know more about Pappas. Why was she there? Last year she paced the group that included Lisa Uhl I think. So sounds like she was probably there as an officially hired pacer.

This is a separate issue from Deena. Even if Pappas had nothing to do with her, what was she doing there pacing when Chicago made it such a point they weren't hiring any pacers?

Perhaps she used her previous connection with the race staff and asked if she could run through half-way to simulate a marathon race situation for her eventual debut. It's really not that hard, man. Like a true professional, perhaps she wants to do as much as she can to prepare. Wouldn't you?

Turns out she did run with Denna to the half-way point.

And I'm not fully buying the "she's preparing for her marathon debut" excuse. First, she wouldn't need to be there two years in a row and just happen to be running along side a big name elite on both occasions. Not to mention Pappas is no where near making her marathon debut (if you read her latest blog post, you'll see she still struggles just doing long runs). Lastly, there are many easier ways to accomplish this type of simulation without traveling to Chicago and dropping out halfway after running with another pro.

I'm not saying I agree with the OP and I don't have a problem with Deena or anyone running alongside men that happen to be going the same pace since that's the nature of having a mixed start. However, having your own personal person there purposely to pace you when there was supposed to be no pacers is a different story. If Kiplagat really did that as well, then this whole "no pacers" thing truly was a sham.