“All the experts in the field came to the conclusion that no, there is no way to believe that thyroid hormone could be performance enhancing,†he said.
Let it go.
been around 'ya know wrote:
“All the experts in the field came to the conclusion that no, there is no way to believe that thyroid hormone could be performance enhancing,†he said.
Let it go.
Yeah all of the experts except for the British and American doctors who said they wanted it banned as it is performance enhancing.. Thyroid is like adderall. Of course it helps. The idea that it only helps those with thyroid problems is absurd.
When I was coaching, a prominent scientist once told me, "Look there isn't a study to prove it. If the coaches are doing it, it generally works. The coaches are way ahead of the scientfists."
been around 'ya know wrote:
“All the experts in the field came to the conclusion that no, there is no way to believe that thyroid hormone could be performance enhancing,†he said.
Let it go.
LOL ... All of the experts in the field? This is the first time in history that ALL EXPERTS agreed there was NO WAY TO BELIEVE. LOL.
The "experts in the field" are certainly handpicked and limited to the so-called experts on the WADA and the USADA's payroll...ummm, gave grants to.
ex college coach wrote:
been around 'ya know wrote:“All the experts in the field came to the conclusion that no, there is no way to believe that thyroid hormone could be performance enhancing,†he said.
Let it go.
Yeah all of the experts except for the British and American doctors who said they wanted it banned as it is performance enhancing.. Thyroid is like adderall. Of course it helps. The idea that it only helps those with thyroid problems is absurd.
When I was coaching, a prominent scientist once told me, "Look there isn't a study to prove it. If the coaches are doing it, it generally works. The coaches are way ahead of the scientfists."
Of course it helps.
Why else would every sprinter be using it, talking about it, and calling it "the lightness"?
ex college coach wrote:
"The coaches are way ahead of the scientfists."
yes but they're also way ahead of what they were doing 5 years ago, such as thyroid meds.
the performance effect was to reverse the symptoms of overtraining and excessive weight loss. But the elite level is loaded with unnaturally skinny superstars who aren't taking thyroid meds. Whatever they're doing is new and better.
Good to know everyone here knows better than the science director at WADA.
But anyway, whatever you might think this is the clearest statement yet that WADA are perfectly happy for anyone to be messing around with thyroid medication - in their view it doesn't enhance performance and is not harmful to athletes health.
That means the rules of our sport specifically allow anyone to use thyroid medication.
So any posts about XYZ athlete being a doper because they are taking them, or their coach having them take them, is now defunct. You cannot say any athlete using thyroid medication is cheating, nor any coach who (perhaps mistakenly) believes they help. This is not grey area any more. It is black and white - which has to be a good thing.
Since it is clear that the "experts" are at LRC and not at WADA; maybe someone can explain what the performance enhancement is for an athlete taking thyroid medication that doesn't need it.
larkimm wrote:
So any posts about XYZ athlete being a doper because they are taking them, or their coach having them take them, is now defunct. You cannot say any athlete using thyroid medication is cheating, nor any coach who (perhaps mistakenly) believes they help. This is not grey area any more. It is black and white - which has to be a good thing.
Wow, there really are some deluded people here.
Just because a prescription drugs isn't banned, you think that taking it without a prescription, with someone else's prescription, or with a fraudulent prescription is ethical.
I feel bad for your children.
It's not just "LRC experts" who know thyroid boosting enhances performance. The Netherlands anti-doping agency has been against it for years. Jos Hermens, too. I think he knows a thing or two.
As for the uninformed poster asking about performance benefits, actual dopers like Chambers and coach Conte have been clear it lowers body fat and raises energy levels (aka "the lightness"). Why do you think Farah and Rupp show zero body fat, when even Bekele and Geb always had some?
Unethical cheats.
head in sand wrote:
It's not just "LRC experts" who know thyroid boosting enhances performance.
As for the uninformed poster asking about performance benefits, actual dopers like Chambers and coach Conte have been clear it lowers body fat and raises energy levels (aka "the lightness"). Why do you think Farah and Rupp show zero body fat, when even Bekele and Geb always had some?
Unethical cheats.
Mo takes thyroid meds? I think that would be news to him.
Everyone, stop whining, go to your doc and ask for your TSH checked- if higher than 5-10 get on thyroid meds - just like you would get on iron if your ferritin was below 40. It's quite simple- insurance would pay as its called subclinical hypothyroidism. All you whiners lost so join the crowd or suffer having low thyroid. But you should be consistent and not take iron as well
Just join the crowd wrote:
Everyone, stop whining, go to your doc and ask for your TSH checked- if higher than 5-10 get on thyroid meds - just like you would get on iron if your ferritin was below 40. It's quite simple- insurance would pay as its called subclinical hypothyroidism. All you whiners lost so join the crowd or suffer having low thyroid. But you should be consistent and not take iron as well
I think thyroid issues have gotten a bad rap because we associate them with NOP, AlSal, Rupp, etc. We wouldn't be having this conversation if not for them. Having depressed iron messes up your training. Training may lower iron. You take a supplement to fix that, knowing that extra iron beyond replacement level won't do much for you. No controversy. Why is thyroid any different? Only our perception is different.
head in sand wrote:
Just because a prescription drugs isn't banned, you think that taking it without a prescription, with someone else's prescription, or with a fraudulent prescription is ethical.
I never said it was ethical (nor that it wasn't). And nor did I say anything about sharing prescription drugs (which in many countries and jurisdiction would be illegal per se, though different countries differ, and different countries have different stances on what is a prescription drug). I didn't mention fraudulent behaviour either.
I meant what I said. If an athlete (legally, according to the law of the country in which it is administered) takes thyroid meds WADA says that is perfectly OK. You are free to have an opinion on that. But your opinion is now explicitly at odds with the organisation responsible for setting the rules in relation to drug use in sport.
This is no longer a grey area - they have said use of thyroid meds is fine, and therefore anyone that takes it cannot be accused of cheating.
Obviously, you may choose to believe the opinions of the Dutch anti-doping agency, or Chambers / Conte, if you like. But it doesn't matter what they say. It does matter what WADA say, and they say "It's fine". You might not be happy with it, but I'm sure WADA will get over that crushing disappointment.
I was wondering if rupp and flanagan are dopers. Are they?
let me shake my magic 8 ball for you
larkimm wrote:
This is no longer a grey area - they have said use of thyroid meds is fine, and therefore anyone that takes it cannot be accused of cheating.
Wrong. WADA did not say use of thyroid is fine for everyone. A prescription is required from a "real" doctor, and not from a doctor who prescribes it simply because that is what a coach wants (Dr Brown).
Use, and abuse, of non-prescription drugs is not allowed by WADA. The gray-zone is there.
Prescription wrote:
larkimm wrote:This is no longer a grey area - they have said use of thyroid meds is fine, and therefore anyone that takes it cannot be accused of cheating.
Wrong. WADA did not say use of thyroid is fine for everyone. A prescription is required from a "real" doctor, and not from a doctor who prescribes it simply because that is what a coach wants (Dr Brown).
Use, and abuse, of non-prescription drugs is not allowed by WADA. The gray-zone is there.
I'm happy to be proven wrong here, but when a medically qualified doctor prescribes something, they are doing it from a professional standpoint, and WADA cannot (and do not) seek to overturn a doctors professional clinical opinion.
And anyway, I'm not also sure that WADA has a view on prescriptions. Prescriptions are a method for controlling access to drugs in the population of the country they are written in. Each country has its own different approach here, and I don't think WADA insists that certain drugs are only made available to athletes via prescription. USADA may have a view about that (they probably do) as they can choose to match up their code with the laws surrounding prescription drugs in the US. But WADA doesn't care. As an extreme example, cannabis would be available without restriction in some European countries, but that doesn't mean that it isn't still banned in competition by WADA. Conversely, ibuprofen used to be prescription only in Australia. If you had ibuprofen in your system and you were in Australia at the time, that doesn't mean that WADA would sanction you if you didn't have a prescription.
Happy to be pointed towards something which contradicts this of course.
larkimm wrote:
You cannot say any athlete using thyroid medication is cheating, nor any coach who (perhaps mistakenly) believes they help. This is not grey area any more. It is black and white - which has to be a good thing.
I don't agree with this statement. I guess you can say they aren't breaking the rules but it's not black and white. People asked for the drug to be banned becaus they view it as dangerous and performance enhancer. SO obviously some believe that to be the case.
Often times, science isn't decided.
Let me share a story about ferritin.
When I was coaching at Cornell, I had a supertar recruit was struggling mightily. He was found to have low ferritin and started getting an IV drip from his doctor at home. It was killing him academically to have to drive home 5 hours round trip ever few weeks (we tried pills/liquid but it killed his stomach) so he went to the local blood expert in town.
She told me in the absence of a clinical anemia, a low ferritin level meant nothing to her. Nothing. She actually said it might be positive as ferritin had something to do with inflammation.
I told her, "So what all of the elite coaches and doctors, whose job it is to know about this, are saying is just hogwash?" Dr. Dave Martin had told brother a male distance runner shouldn't even bother to move to altitude if his ferritin was below 30. Alberto Salazar told me he liked to see it over 60 (or was it 100)?"
Sure it's possible Dave Martin and Salazar are wrong but I imagine they know more about ferritin and it's role in perfromance than some recent grat from med school.
I'd agree with you if it were not for the fact that WADA have made this pronouncement.
There comes a point at which we have to accept there is a final arbiter in this. In our case, I think that has to be WADA. If they say it is banned, it is banned. If they say they are specifically not banning it, then it is specifically not banned.
The grey area exists where WADA makes no official pronouncement at all - they are silent on the drug.
I don't disagree that there may well be cases where coaches and Drs involved in athletics have different opinions. But I for one am happy to take WADA's line as gospel. By all means, agitate for a change, but with all of the furore surround NOP etc which specifically had thyroid medication as part of the scenario being discussed, for WADA to come out and make a public statement that they have reviewed the info and are concluding that thyroid hormone isn't an issue, then I think that puts the issue to bed and it is black and white.
I'm not so naive to think that unless something is specifically outlawed in the rules and regulations that it is not unethical or borderline cheating - rules have to catch up with developments some times. But when an appropriate body like WADA comes out and says "We've looked at this, it isn't cheating" then it does (for me) become black and white.
So how much did Nike pay WADA?