LRC Discussion: Finding the proper way to discuss eating disorders/women's weight issues on LetsRun.com

Let the people talk. It's the point of this site. This is the one place where (for better or worse) we don't want everything watered down.

The fact is each person's physiology is different and that's why nobody can know from the outside what's up. That's why some restraint is prudent. Let's be real, though. A person can have an eating disorder whether or not there is visible evidence to outsiders. Explanations can be real or fake. I just think we need to acknowledge that it's a s--- show to prove there is or isn't an eating disorder for any one specific athlete.

P.S. Similarly, saying somebody has food allergies hardly matters. I know people who are allergic to shellfish, have gluten insensitivity, are vegan, and so on and so forth. Some of them eat healthy. Some of them have eating disorders and use these excuses as attempts to rationalize it to others. The fact is we all can make good and bad decisions about our diet and training.

P.P.S. Until you can figure something better out, treat eating disorders like an injury. It's all speculation until you get confirmation.

You are not going to get a thoughtful discussion on this topic, or most any topic, with anonymous posting. Too often even the threads with the best of intention take a dive to the dark side because of trolls. I am not for forcing registration by any means and I hate to see some topics made off limits for the boards but what is the answer?

I don't think you are far off - I think traditionally you have made a distinction between amateur and profesh runners. Am I right? Probably the distinction was made for guessing at PED use, but the issue is the same.

If I were you I would not tolerate any naming of names of high school or college women - that should be out of bounds for talk of ED issues. Amateur student athletes in their teens or just out of their teens won't be helped by anonymous accusations on the internet. If posters want to be helpful, email the coach or speak generally.

Profesh athletes are a different matter - they have chosen to live in the public eye, are adults 99% of the time and depend on the running industry for their wages. Naming their names is fine - fair game as long as posters are civilized.

That does leave the problem open of how to shame coaches into being more responsilbe...but I don't see messageboard shouting to be the cure.

I agree about not naming athletes directly, but I think it is reasonable to say "I think that x college has a runner who ran y invite looking too underweight" and readers can use google to dig deeper if they are so inclined. This would hold programs accountable without putting too much pressure on the individual.It is interesting that 99% of the pro females don't seem to be underweight, at least by elite standards, whereas every year there are at least 1-3 collegiate women who appear to be dangerously thin. I guess by the early 20's the selection process has weeded out unsustainable regimens of both training and diet.

If you were to see the gal in question in person, I cannot believe that the average human being wouldn't instantly overcome with a genuine, innate concern for her. Of course, if there was a medical reason for it, that could lessen this feeling but it is real and I felt it as did everyone around me...and I thought pro runner Ilsa Paulson was small when I saw her in person. She ran great though and is an amazing talent. Sadly, because she is so far from the "norm" and looks like she has an ED, attention (good, bad and well-meaning) will be thrust upon her. People always want to offer advice to others that appear "unhealthy." It will always be that way, I think. You did the right thing by pulling the thread though as well as the other one you mentioned.

You guys can't even keep your moderators from deleting threads that you (personally, as the owners) post on. If you can't proclaim and enforce standards consistently in relatively trivially instances why do you think it matters what "policy" you adopt?

I think it is a good idea, but have my doubts about the execution.

1) Yes we distinguish between pros and others.

2) As for moderators deleting threads we post in there are two possibilities:

a) the thread shouldn't have been removed and b) the thread got out of control after we posted in it.

a) does happen from time to time, and people are going to have differences of opinion of what should be removed.

However, even acknowledging mistakes are made doesn't mean we shouldn't come up with a system of guidelines to help improve the moderating system and the LRC community. People (and all communities) make mistakes, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have a set of guidelines you aspire too.

Wejo

Thank-you

This is a valuable thread.

1) Eating disorders are a real problem in the sport and, for a number of reasons, are more prevalent among women than men. Almost all successful distance runners have obsessive-compulsive tendencies. When these tendencies get applied to dieting, then disaster can be the result.

2) There is a lot of attention paid to women's bodies, in life, and on this board. This sort of attention only magnifies the problems.

3) How does one draw the line between constructive criticism of a coach, program, etc and hurtful comments that could have a seriously negative effect on an athlete in question? I would like to suggest that it would help to restrict comments to registered posters, but "B sample" posted valuable words.

4) Pro athletes should face more scrutiny than high school or collegiate runners, but most pros have figured out how to be thin (which is necessary) while still staying healthy (which is also necessary).

5) Could letsrun offer confidential advice from some of the readers who have overcome eating disorders?

Executive summary - allow all discussion, remove names and linked pictures of athletes not at the pro level.

Generally: this board has a strong precedent for letting wild speculation, ad hominem attacks, and non running topics flourish. As the powers that be et al sometimes recognize, this tends to be good for traffic. The occasional tendency to arbitrarily moderate has its weaknesses, but once in a while confers the greater good.

Eating disorders, as a relevant topic for running, should not be moderated by default.

Perhaps: Censor names at any non professional level - you don't want to accidentally create a situation where 10 years from now, google directs all prospective employers and second dates to a brief and unfortunate situation in someone's life.

Nonetheless: allow specific information about coaches/programs, and indirect information about athletes. People who spend appreciable time in the sport see the same coaches/programs, tacitly or otherwise, facilitating a system that leads to long term health issues for some of their athletes. Calling attention to this (as others have noted) is at least as valuable as calling attention to potential drug cheats and course cutters.

If you want to scrub someone's name from posts, and remove picture links, fine. Force people who want to dig deeper to find the information in the ether. But to wholesale remove threads is incongruous with the nature of the site, and disruptive to legitimate running conversation.

Using Boise State as an example, this meets the site's low standards for relevance - tons of people keep posting about obvious issues, as opposed to one random person with an axe to grind. Wouldn't necessarily convict in a jury trial...but see earlier comments comparing to drug issues.

Continuing with the current relevant example - you have two new runners from far away lands in their first meet. The coach may be giving them the benefit of the doubt. After all, the coach has only dealt with them directly for 6 weeks or so. Still, the coach is not a newbie - he has no doubt seen this many times. Intervention now may prevent countless stress fractures and 2 lifetimes of bone disease.

I don't have the answers, although I did have an ED in the past.

Allergies or not, that girl is not healthy and it is obviously an eating disorder, even if the disorder is not a psychologically motivated one.

EVERYONE who watched that race knew there was a problem with the runner in question. Which is why you know that people in her life have absolutely discussed it with her as well.

When you are so obviously an outlier, you are going to be noticed and you are going to be talked about. Does it really make a difference if the discussion is online or not? Nobody is being fooled. Even the commentators sounded a little bit uncomfortable. They knew they couldn't mention it, but it was the elephant in the room everyone couldn't stop looking at.

I really question whether eating disorders are that much more prevalent in women. Or does having 10x the testosterone of a women spare enough muscle that men who are struggling look dramatically healthier due to having so much more muscle on their bones.

wejo wrote:

People (and all communities) make mistakes, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't have a set of guidelines you aspire too.

Any discussion that is based on nothing but speculation needs to go. You can possibly make exceptions for pros because of the "fair game" culture we live in.

If there is any substance then the thread should be allowed e.g. the athlete has spoken publicly about struggles with an ED; or perhaps a journalist has written an article about allegations of bad practices at x institution.

I would say, make it simple:

- if it has the potential to SERIOUSLY hurt of offend someone, remove it.

- If it is neutral or can help someone, post it.

If it is borderline, err on the safe side.

One other suggestion...there is a LOT of discussion about the problem, but very little discussion about successful solutions. I'm sure that at the high school and college and professional levels, there are programs that succeed in solving this for athletes, both in a proactive way and a reactive way. Both preventative and also after it has become serious or even life threatening. I think publishing these types of solutions would be wonderful, and publicizing them would give parents/athletes/coaches/AD's/etc a starting point of how to approach this issue and make progress in fighting or stopping it.

I'm sure that anyone that has been successful dealing with this would LOVE to share their solutions.

Weldon,

This is an important issue for our sport.

How about starting a thread limited to registered users about helping those with the problem, i know its a departure from the business model, but remarkably necessary.

If that is untennable, run a series of interviews with women/men runners who have had an ED. Educate.

Allowing anonymous posters the opporunity to accuse and hurt is not the answer. Too much toxic vitriol hate and anger out there.

I don't see anyone making a big hairy deal about this:

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Asbel+Kiprop+Olympics+Day+9+Athletics+dngg95Zo5LLl.jpg

It's mostly males having opinions about females.

fred wrote:

I don't see anyone making a big hairy deal about this:

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Asbel+Kiprop+Olympics+Day+9+Athletics+dngg95Zo5LLl.jpg

It's mostly males having opinions about females.

Because men aren't under strong pressures to be that skinny. Quite the opposite. For men, societal pressure to be big and muscular is a countervailing force against the obsessive pursuit of running-related goals. For women societal pressure and running obsessions work hand in hand to drive women to become thinner and thinner.

fred wrote:

I don't see anyone making a big hairy deal about this:

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Asbel+Kiprop+Olympics+Day+9+Athletics+dngg95Zo5LLl.jpg

It's mostly males having opinions about females.

Kiprop has been competing at the highest level since 2007. If he had an ED competing at such a high level would be unsustainable. That is why people are not making a big deal about him or other male athletes for that matter.

The problem with requiring registration is that it would discourage posting by those (athlete or coach) with past or current firsthand experience (as above) with the issue from contributing valuable insights.

Cull the posts based on content, not on user. You will have to do that in any case, so just keep the guidelines as simple as possible.

The vitriol, bitterness, trolling, fabricated rumors, and outright lies will continue until registration for posted culpability is established. Until then, it's no better than what is written on a bathroom wall.

You can start by dropping the assumption that it's only a female problem.