How could Coe train this hard, multi pace system a lie?

Because Coe is and was a liar and a doper.

Its from his fathers book.

Hers from Horwill, pretty much the same:

http://www.serpentine.org.uk/pages/advice_frank52.html

All hard hard days, little rest.

It's impossible to know how hard each of those days truly were without knowing the paces.

low volume. no real wear and tear.

Hard to argue this. Their book is full of prevarications and distortions, and Coe's current festering phony facade gives lie to his flawed nature. Machiavelli has a son in Britain.

largely traditional wrote:

Because Coe is and was a liar and a doper.

Senor Gomez wrote:

Its from his fathers book.

Hers from Horwill, pretty much the same:

http://www.serpentine.org.uk/pages/advice_frank52.html

All hard hard days, little rest.

Horwills schedules are jokes i wish I could find the quote where Hutchings basically said he cut all the workouts in half.

For an example of an impossible workout out, look at this beauty

Day 8

Aerobic 30 mins run at 10k pace (3.25/km) (90% aerobic)

So basically you run a bit over 9km at 10k race pace. If I did that during the week (after a couple track workouts and no taper) and didn't PR big during the next race, I would think I was a major head case.

Whenever you see these schedules you have to realize that their is some BS in them. Coe may have run 4 x 800 in 1:54 but it gets left off that they were downhill 800m measured by his dad (i.e. off by 10ms). There is a Syndey Maree schedule out there that has him running 10 miles every morning at 4:30-4:50 pace. Obviously either that course was short or something else (last mile was 4:30, first 9 were 6:))

Its just not the workout, its that no days are rest days. Its pretty normal with two easy days before a hard workout.

Senor Gomez wrote:

Its just not the workout, its that no days are rest days. Its pretty normal with two easy days before a hard workout.

For you maybe. None of those workouts are breaking down his body any more than can be repaired and re-enegized overnight.

Running is not weight lifting.

Context wrote:

It's impossible to know how hard each of those days truly were without knowing the paces.

here you go:

1: 4 x 1500m @ 5K pace

2: Fartlek

3: 8 x 800m @ 3K pace

4: Road run

5: 16 x 200m @ 1500 pace

6: Rest if racing, if not Fartlek

7: Time trial or race

8: 4-6 x 400m @ 800 pace

9: Road run

10: 2 x 30m, 4 x 200m, 4 x 100m @ 400 pace

You could work through the 5 paces on a rolling 10 day programme for an elite, but use 14 days for others.

If you've ever heard Englishmen tell stories you know they love to embellish. Reality is never quite good enough for a perfect punchline and so they often come up with something close to the truth that didn't actually happen, and the other person involved in the story just guffaws never actually repudiating it. I fully believe this is the case with their training too. Take for instance the idea that Coe never ran more than 70Km in a week. Well, now we know he never included warm-ups, cool downs or recovery runs. So, he ran 40 miles he considered quality, and who knows how many miles of easy runs for relaxation.

In Running Free Coe and Miller specifically mention 70 MILES per week in the early part of 79.

A Runners World interview in early '85 had Coe saying he was doing up to 85 MILES per week anticipating making a 5000m transition.

Most of the Coe did low miles myths were not actually perpetuated by him.

His published schedules of final track work prep happen to show ridiculously tapered mileage but he never said it was like that year 'round. EVER.

1) you don't know how hard the "fartlek" and "road run" were. these could be easy, were almost certainly relatively easy days

2) Coe trained seriously from age 14 with this low volume, high intensity stuff. It's just like runners doing high mileage, say over 150 a week. the body adapts to the particular stress being put upon it and learns to recover from that specific stress very quickly. Coe would probably have been hobbling around after 4-5 weeks at 120 miles per week - but for some runners that is pretty basic stuff.

3) Read up on many great runners from the 1950s and 1960s. Many of them did interval workouts on a daily basis, sometimes twice per day. As I said above, given time the body adapts and can cope with almost anything if the demands are gradually increased.

4) Read what Coe and his Dad say in other publications; rest days of no running or any other form of training were an important part of the programme.

#1 The Coe's exaggerated everything the wrote to intimidate their rivals.

#2 I don't think they actually lied.

For example, "here you go:

1: 4 x 1500m @ 5K pace

2: Fartlek

3: 8 x 800m @ 3K pace

4: Road run

5: 16 x 200m @ 1500 pace

6: Rest if racing, if not Fartlek

7: Time trial or race

8: 4-6 x 400m @ 800 pace

9: Road run

10: 2 x 30m, 4 x 200m, 4 x 100m @ 400 pace"

This tells us NOTHING about the pace.

I'm sure you can pull up Wiki and see 400 m 46.87 800 m 1:41.73 1500 m 3:29.77 3000 m 7:54.32 5000 m 14:06.2

First note his 3k and 5k times are much worse than the others. Was that on purpose or was that all his training would produce?

Next, he should have been able to run 13:0X and 7:3X those days are more like half marathon and 8k pace. Also does anyone seriously think they mean PR 400, 800, 1500, 3k and 5k pace or more like date pace, so even easier.

Finally, you have to remember Coe did something like this for YEARS. The first year the paces might have been 1500 rather than 400, 3k rather than 800 and so on. The second year 800 rather than 400 and 1500 rather than 800 and so on. He built up to it slowly.

Just some food for thought :)

Training at a high intensity every day is possible, if you build up to it and if you understand your body well.

John Broz is a weightlifting coach, but the concepts carry over to running as well (for many athletes at the elite level).

The last 14 days before Bob Schul broke the 2 mile WR he ran 2 track workouts/day - 14 days in a row.

5 pacer wrote:

Context wrote:

It's impossible to know how hard each of those days truly were without knowing the paces.

here you go:

1: 4 x 1500m @ 5K pace

2: Fartlek

3: 8 x 800m @ 3K pace

4: Road run

5: 16 x 200m @ 1500 pace

6: Rest if racing, if not Fartlek

7: Time trial or race

8: 4-6 x 400m @ 800 pace

9: Road run

10: 2 x 30m, 4 x 200m, 4 x 100m @ 400 pace

You could work through the 5 paces on a rolling 10 day programme for an elite, but use 14 days for others.

None of those seems particular hard except the 4x1500 at 5k pace or the 8x800 at 3k pace or the 4-6 400 at 800 pace. That's 3 hard workouts in 8 days. The other days are more like strides than a hard workout.

"they were downhill 800m measured by his dad (i.e. off by 10ms)."

-some random wanker muppet they know the measurements on Rivelin Valley Road now? c'mon, then. it's getting ridiculous around here. Peter was a man where details and no stone left unturned were in high esteem. odds are that he used a wheel, as he did for the majority of seb's hill runs.

Have some experience running workouts advised by Peter Coe. The day to day intensity as noted above was there. Can't say we had more than 2 "easy" days per week. Your body adapts and it worked for me. Remember, he was a mid distance guy, not a long distance guy. Lack of overall volume allows you to do harder workouts. I'm sure he'd love to know all you feel that he trained too hard. Competitive advantage. The proof is in the pudding, 1:41, multiple Olympic medals.

Another hallamshire harrier wrote:

"they were downhill 800m measured by his dad (i.e. off by 10ms)."

-some random wanker muppet they know the measurements on Rivelin Valley Road now? c'mon, then. it's getting ridiculous around here. Peter was a man where details and no stone left unturned were in high esteem. odds are that he used a wheel, as he did for the majority of seb's hill runs.

Actually you can watch a video of them doing this workout and you will note that the distances were "about" 800m. You can even hear Seb say one rep was about 100 yards long when the time was slower and Peter scoffs and says "well it's not 100 yards long".

Now who's the wanker muppet?