what full deconditioning looks like: 57 and pitiful

whats the pace for the world record in the 5k ?

no one talks like that

What has been your strength and flexibility program over the past 20 years?

59 here wrote:

What has been your strength and flexibility program over the past 20 years?

No strength training whatever. Some minimal stretching before and after runs. I've started to up that, slowly, and I've added a couple of dynamic stretches--including, usefully (and carefully), some punter-style kicks to about 90 degrees.

I would welcome suggestions for hamstring strengthening exercises, particularly those that can be done at home, without specialized equipment. Give me a couple that work and that anybody can do, and I will add them to the mix. Clearly hamstring strengthening is one key missing element.

I'm not in the running for a WR. This thread is about paces and heart rates, not times. But since it's easier for you:

May 2014: 20:36 (6:38 pace, certified course)

March 2015: 21:04 (6:47 pace, uncertified course)

You need to relax. If you're running over 10 minute miles don't worry about a HR monitor. It's probably hot where you live and that will make running more difficult. Try ditching the watch for a few months. Walk if you have to, but jog when you can. Find some nice places to run or something to make running fun again. Slowly add some strength training and dynamic stretching. 57 isn't very old and you'll bounce back soon.

I would advise stopping attempts at running, just walk (including hills) and cross train with other aerobic modalities (bike, swim) until you can resolve the hamstring.

Isolating the hamstring to strengthen is a losing battle, especially for older runners like you that have accumulated horrible overall imbalances (I have been doing stretching/strengthening daily since age 18 and it still is a daily effort to keep the ship together).

Google info on these or better yet, get some basic instruction:

Yoga: Triangle pose, warrior pose, downward dog

Lifting: Backsquat, deadlift, romanian dead lift, lunges,

Drills: No kicks until hammy is healed. Instead: Skipping, hopping, run sideways to back wards to front and repeat. Alligator crawl for core/back and overall strength. Be loose and warmed up throughout.

That's a start, but realize your running career is in serious jeopardy and it is no mystery why. Learn hard and learn fast if you take it as seriously as I do.

You act like this is the first time you've overcome adversity. As it sounds like you've been running consistent miles for decades I'm sure that's not true.

Like the other guy said, relax, get some physical therapy to take care of the hamstring as necessary, ease back in, and I'm sure you'll be back to nearly the same as before by the end of next spring. Your summer/fall fitness has taken a hit but a few months off isn't going to suddenly erase decades of base and fitness.

There will probably be physical injuries like this every now and again but the mental toughness that you've built up over a lifetime is as strong as it has ever been.

After about age 50, runners cannot take more than a few days off without serious loss of fitness. You need to get that hamstring fixed.

Ask around and find out who athletes use for this injury. There are a couple of types of massage therapy that might help, but I don't know what they are called. Prolotherapy might help. It has helped some local runners. The next step up after that is PRP injections.

Bad news, friend. 57 is the year I got old. Before that I could battle back against the rising tide but at 57 I ended up under water. There's no more getting back in shape, slowing the rate of decline, etc. There's only not making things worse and even that isn't easy.

Hey KudzuRunner,

The weather is still an issue up here in Memphis the last couple of days. It should be better going into the week. I ran today (dew point of 73) slower than I did in March, and I don't think I'm in worse shape at all.

I can't offer anything because comebacks truly do suck, but I just want to write to thank you. You don't know who I am, but you have greatly helped me. In fact, I was completely deconditioned 8 months ago, having been laid off with an injury for four years. After trying everything else, I saw something on the board that you had written years ago about a specific chiropractor. At the time I was highly skeptical of chiropractic, but I had tried everything else, and because of your reputation as a poster and that you had recommended him, I thought I'd give it a shot, because what do I have to lose?

Suffice to say that if it weren't for one of your posts, I wouldn't be running right now.

So thank you.

I wish comebacks were easier, and yes, being deconditioned is the worst possible feeling. But, it only gets better.

Just remember if the hamstrings are giving you trouble then you should target opposing muscles. Squats/wall sits. Lotta squats, you can do them w/o weights then add some weight like with a kettlebell. Start low weight with more reps, work up weight with less reps but do NOT overdo it and stress the back.

I've had to take a lot of time off and the max HR tanked, can't figure that one out. But you can work on the resting end/stroke volume.

And don't effing quit no matter what. Love getting out there and moving. Run when the sun is coming up or going down or in the rain and snow and cold and heat but DON'T EFFING QUIT.

Agreed on working on what opposes the hamstrings. Kudzu, every runner is obviously unique. But....if you're running out of ideas, try working on stretching and lengthening the psoas, rectus femoris, and other hip flexors.

I have recurring hamstring issues, and I've learned that the answer (for me at least) is NOT to work on the hamstring, but to focus my strengthening on the glutes, and my massage and stretching on the hip flexors. It's my standing instruction when I go in for a massage - please go very lightly on the hamstrings or skip them, and dig into the psoas and quads.

I have the luxury of being ~15 years younger than you, so I recover a lot better and heal quicker - I have a taste of how frustrating getting older is - you do all the right things, but just don't see the same gains. But I hope you continue to persevere.

You're like a race car driver who crashes his car and then complains that, ever since the crash, the car has been pathetically slow. Duh! Ditch the HR monitor and ditch the watch. Rehab and run by feel. Enjoy the process!

KudzuRunner, seen you on this board a long time, and I sympathize. Been through similar stuff the last few years. I'm 52 and I thought I was out for good a few times. Several layoffs of more than 6 months.

But I have found time between layoffs to get some periods of regular running. Reminded me of why I did this sport in the first place.

It ain't over until you quit.

Watch the documentary "Forks Over Knives." Start eating tons of fruits and vegetables. Then stimulate your hamstring with a buzz sports massager for an hour every night. Watch how fast it heals. Trust me.

Hey KudzuRunner,

I know how you feel. I'm only 49, but I've dealt with both the massive deconditioning thing as well as chronic hamstring issues. Here are two articles you should look at regarding rehabbing from hamstring injury and maintaining healthy hamstrings:

http://www.uwhealth.org/files/uwhealth/docs/pdf3/sportsrehab_sherry.pdf

http://running.competitor.com/2014/03/photos/best-ways-treat-hamstring-injuries_97314

The articles overlap quite a bit, but they combine to give some great advice.

One of the tips in the 2nd article was to shorten the stride and increase the cadence, which made me realize just how bad my form had become. I had been overstriding with slow turnover. The biggest thing I've noticed since working on this was that before, I was not propulsing off the balls of the feet and toes like I used to, which I've gotten back now. Since working on this, along with the other recommendations, my runs have improved quite a bit, and my hamstrings feel less vulnerable.

Something that seemed to help my loss of endurance and strength was taking 2000 IU of vitamin D (I had a comprehensive lab workup that revealed the deficiency). You may be in need of some vitamin or mineral that you are deficient in, as well.

As another poster said, don't give up! There is almost always hope, but you've got to find the right path, and if one isn't working, try another one.

Good Luck!

I sympathize. Things were going great until 56 -- ran my last sub3 marathon and since then it has been torn hamstring right side, stress fracture of the hip left side, hamstring problems right side, 3:10, 3:17, ?? 57 was a cliff. I'm thinking it may be time to cut back and run mostly for fun, do one marathon a year (Boston), and find other outlets. 70 miles a week is hard to handle at this age. I agree with all who say don't quit!

[quote]darkwave wrote:

Agreed on working on what opposes the hamstrings. Kudzu, every runner is obviously unique. But....if you're running out of ideas, try working on stretching and lengthening the psoas, rectus femoris, and other hip flexors.

I have recurring hamstring issues, and I've learned that the answer (for me at least) is NOT to work on the hamstring, but to focus my strengthening on the glutes, and my massage and stretching on the hip flexors. It's my standing instruction when I go in for a massage - please go very lightly on the hamstrings or skip them, and dig into the psoas and quads.

quote]

This is the correct answer. Hamstring pain is just a symptom unless you actually pulled it sprinting. You would know the difference. The problem is likely in the hip flexors.

fisky wrote:

After about age 50, runners cannot take more than a few days off without serious loss of fitness. You need to get that hamstring fixed.

Ask around and find out who athletes use for this injury. There are a couple of types of massage therapy that might help, but I don't know what they are called. Prolotherapy might help. It has helped some local runners. The next step up after that is PRP injections.

I should have said that I've had great experience with my ART guy in Memphis. Recently I found a great chiro and GREAT LMT in my own town. So I'm working with them, and those issues are resolving.

But I've never done strengthening exercises. I'm lazy. I just wanted run. The just-running thing is over now.