Scholarship Offer for High School Girls In Top 50 Nationally (All Grades)

This is a broad question. If someone is a top-50 HS recruit, and there are 300+ D1 schools, then odds are good they can get a scholarship offer. There are more women's programs than men's, and there are more scholarships available to women than men for T&F.

The 5k time seems weak compared to the 1600 and 3200 times. Look for an on-line calculator to convert the 1600 time to a1500 time and the 3200 time to convert to a 5000 meter (track) time. Better yet, try to get the girl to run a 5k track race at an all-comers meet (or even a road race on a certified course). Then look at the conference meet results for some of the schools you are targeting (e.g., Pac 12 for Stanford). See how a 1500 or 5000 time would place in a conference meet. This is a good benchmark.

Unless there's clearly a need for an athletic scholarship to pay for college, it's not a good idea to go "anywhere" that will offer a scholarship. You could be on the far side of the country, or in South Central Los Angeles, or Stillwater, OK, or another challenging living situation. Think about the academic experience (major, undergraduate programs, student life, etc.). Down-select your schools to a manageable amount and include a few "fallback" options.

You'll need to contact the coaches about going through the recruiting process and reqquesting consideration for an athletic scholarship. That's the only way you'll get the detailed information you are seeking. Some schools may not have all scholarships funded, may want someone to be a walk-on the first year, may prioritize sprints over distances, may not have many scholarships available to incoming freshmen this particular year, etc.

Everyplace is different. Email/call and ask.

Thanks for the information. Your advice is excellent. Much of it I have learned over time reading here and elsewhere. My daughter started e-mailing and calling coaches around the start of her junior year. She has had 5 - 8 unofficial visits and is now scheduling her official visits for this fall. One coach has already made a very generous offer and one offered very little. I think the later one had little available to offer given how soon the coach brought the topic up. I think the rest of the coaches will wait until the official visits occur to make an offer. The teams she will visit official have all indicated she will be a scholarship athlete.

My daughter is also considering the relationship she has developed with the coaches, distance from home, the college campus and surrounding area, and other factors. She has fall back colleges she is in contact with.

I used

to see what her 5000 time should be. It is very close to her 5000 in 2015. Her XC 5K time is from last fall and is slower. I have spent a lot of time looking at her top choice of schools and their times and looked at the PAC 12 times as you suggested. Her 5000 meter time would not have scored points at the PAC 12 track championship but she also would have finished in front of much of the field. She has been improving her times each season thus far and still has time during her senior year to improve more. I hope she will be able to contribute to her college XC team her freshman year and score points in a conference championship by her sophomore year.

I just don't know what to expect regarding scholarship offers. Much less information is available for this topic. I see the number of girls that sign with these teams every year and wonder how much they receive and how much the teams will have available for my daughter and the rest of her recruiting class given the limit of 18 scholarships for XC and T&F. Everyone hopes for a full ride and no one wants to be insulted with a much lower offer than their peers with similar times. I am just not sure how to judge whether or not an offer is fair given her times until after she has completed all her official visits and received several offers. The scholarship amount is only one of many things she will be considering but if one of her top choices offers 80% and the others offer 40% or less then it will be hard to say no to the 80% offer especially since they all are among her top choices.

The value of the athlete to the program is directly proportional to how soon they can contribute. Period.

This is why situations vary significantly. Top school in a stronger conference versus bottom school in a weaker conference and everything in between.

My best advice is, "Get in where you fit in."

There is an extremely high wash out rate among female distance runners at the highest level programs. Not the fault of individual schools, but just the nature of the beast. If it were my kid, I would make certain she will be in her school's top 5 in cross and will score on the track in conference as a freshman. It is far too easy to get lost if she can't do those things.

Coaches are generally nice people, but they are human. Their level of commitment is proportional to their amount of investment.

Good luck.

You already had your answer before you posted. You have contact directly with schools of interest and you got a range of very little to very generous. You even knew that offers will be affected by how much a coach has available. You got your answers directly from the people making the decision. Why ask it here to a bunch of strangers not involved in the decision making?

You probably know that answer too.

There is no doubt your daughter is good enough to get a full scholarship to at least a few of the schools that have made the NCAA meet in the last 3 years. There is no doubt that a few of the best schools will not give more than 50% to ANYONE they recruit this year. I think you know this.

The most important question is how strong is your daughter academically?

You don't want to send her to Stanford if there is no way she is going to be able to keep up academically and run seriously.

Unless you REALLY need the money, you want to find the right coach and teammates. If she has the right coach and teammates and improves, the money will come. If she has the wrong coach and/or teammates she can lose whatever money she gets pretty quickly.

All else being equal, forget about the focus on the scholarship. Do what's best for her education. Just as few athletes run in college, the smallest few run seriously after college. Running in college should be a nice complement to her studies and social activities.

These are the the key factors to consider:

1. college academic program

2. team dynamic

3. distance from home (does she want you to see her run sometimes?)

4. Total cost to you - consider extra costs of travelling to school (for her, for you), financial aid (Ivies), in-state tuition vs. out of state, academic scholarships, and then athletic scholarships (and terms - are they 4 year guaranteed).

Good luck to you both!

Notably missing are some great academic, athletic options for women: Georgetown, Notre Dame and Villanova. They all happen to be Catholic schools, so maybe they were left off by design. So be it.

I will tell you that all of these schools have a lot of non-Catholics. G'town doesn't feel like a Catholic school at all. It's very urban and international. Villanova doesn't either but it's more homogeneous and suburban. Notre Dame is probably the most Catholic of them all. But it's also the most impressive all around, in my opinion. Especially if you're an athlete.

Bottom line is that G'town and Notre Dame should be on your list if you're looking for great academics and great running. Stanford's the only school that I can think of that is better in both areas (maybe Dartmouth, too, but they don't have athletic scholarships).

Michigan and UVA are great, too.

Good luck!

Sammy Seems.... wrote:

The value of the athlete to the program is directly proportional to how soon they can contribute. Period.

This is why situations vary significantly. Top school in a stronger conference versus bottom school in a weaker conference and everything in between.

My best advice is, "Get in where you fit in."

There is an extremely high wash out rate among female distance runners at the highest level programs. Not the fault of individual schools, but just the nature of the beast. If it were my kid, I would make certain she will be in her school's top 5 in cross and will score on the track in conference as a freshman. It is far too easy to get lost if she can't do those things.

Coaches are generally nice people, but they are human. Their level of commitment is proportional to their amount of investment.

Good luck.

Great Advise!!! Check conference championship results and see if she can score points, if so she has a great shot. But make sure she is a good fit with the team personality wise, team dynamics are a huge issue. If they are happy they will run better and do better in school.

It's so frustrating to see many very good distance runners take tiny scholarships to run for the highest level D1 they can find. So many never make an impact or compete at meets, and often quit after a year or two.

Talk to your daughter's HS coach for some of these ideas. If they can't be very helpful, then they could refer you to another HS coach in the league/district who has had experience with top HS runners going through the recruitment process for college. Also talk to a HS counselor about the academic programs at some of these schools you are considering. They should be able to help narrow down a list of schools (except for the running/scholarship questions).

I'd say you can expect 60-80% offers from quality schools that are interested in mid-dist athletes. YMMV.

More good advice above.

My daughter is looking at top running schools as indicated by the list of schools in my first posting.

I know of the extremely high wash out rate after updating my spreadsheet of runners returning to one of the schools. Most were freshmen. All of these girls had no times on tfrrs.org so I assume they or the coaches decided to end their participation on the team since they were not fast enough to compete. I would have steered my daughter away from many teams if I did not think she could score points for the team by her second year on the team if not the first. My daughter times have been improving every year so I think she can be even more competitive by the time she enters college. We are not concerned that my daughter will get lost on the team her freshmen year. She would be the top distance recruit that all of her top teams have had for several years. They would not offer a significant scholarship without planning to also invest their time in her developing her into one of their top runners. I have asked some coaches some very direct questions regarding their interest and commitment when I see the quality of their recruiting classes every year. Many are recruiting 3 to 6 talented distance runners each year. Not all of them will be able to contribute points at conference championships.

I brought up the question of transfers out of a program with one coach. The coach was very open about why the individuals chose to transfer.

The point of the extreme high wash out rate should be a warning to others reading this. I have met and followed many other high school runners and hope they find the best fit where they can succeed academically and athletically. I hope they just don't pick a competitive D1 school because they want to run on such a school when they actually don't have the times to indicate they will get to compete for several years if ever. They may have been much happier and more successful picking a team where their high school times were close to the times of others who had success on the team.

I have not discussed other details that my daughter is considering because all else is equal at this point and she is near the end of the recruiting process. I think she has covered the other more important aspects of recruiting. She has spoken with runners at several schools and knows some of them personally. We have spoken with the coaches on unofficial visits and have seen some coaching their teams at meets or practices. She has been e-mailing and occasional calling the coaches for nearly a year. They have been calling her every few weeks during the summer. She is strong academically but looking at a demanding degree. She has spoken to coaches and some runners in the field of study to learn how they handled it. The field of study and her ability to get a degree in her area of interest has been my primary concern all along. I have been more concerned that she get into her field of study of choice and succeed and get the degree. Running has been her choice to do and she would likely go to one of her top choices even if she decided to stop running tomorrow. She has the ACT/SAT scores she needs.

I struggled in college at times but still ended up getting the degree I wanted from the start in a very challenging field and have had a successful career that I have enjoyed. I know what she may be facing regarding challenging degree program. I want her to be able to succeed academically too.

The scholarship money later years is another question I have but did not ask yet. I know some who have received a little more money later years as they improved. I don't know whether or not coaches reduce the scholarship in later years if runners do not improve.

Good advice from everyone above once again.

We have never been focused on the amount of the scholarship. I have turned the discussion back to academics and other factors when the discussion seemed to only focus on the team and coach. When someone has brought up the post collegiate running such as the Olympics I have always pointed out how few colligate runners have successful post collegiate careers and how little money most of those earn running. My daughter is focused on her studies and looking forward to running while earning a degree. One of her top choices is an excellent in-state school and team and I am well aware of the some of the advantages of staying in-state.

Do any runners receive a 4 year guarantee? I assumed football and basketball players had a shot at receiving a 4 year guarantee.

I intentionally left off one or more top schools/teams that are recruiting my daughter and included some others not recruiting her for privacy reasons. If I put too many details regarding her times and colleges then it would be easy to identify us. Some top schools may not have a degree program in my daughter's desired field of study. I may have also left off some that chose not to recruit her. Some of these may be in your list. I have nothing against the schools in your list but have to say I am disappointed in the actions of some of the men on one team. My list was not meant to include all schools she contacted or schools that others should consider. If I had thought to post a question here in September of 2014 I would have asked for college recommendations and would have needed much of the other advice provided by you and others. I did find useful information posted previously. I listed some colleges to let others know she was looking at schools that have been consistently competitive teams. She wants to go to a team that can make it to the NCAA championships and she wants to go somewhere where the team and coaching will help her improve her times. She wants to be able to

contribute to the team too.

I think any of the top schools on her list would be a good fit.

Thanks for answering my question. Those numbers are about what I was guessing. I appreciate the confirmation that my guess may be reasonable. I understand coaches have to be interested in recruiting a mid-distance athlete enough to offer a substantial scholarship and also have the available scholarship money.

I hope other parents and high school athletes find this and other useful discussions about the recruiting process. I want to thank everyone for their responses.

It's not the most important factor in making a college choice so I can see why it hasn't been brought up, but it is frequently the most important in having a successful college running career... Style of training.

If you are mileage driven and end up in a speed/interval training system you are going to struggle.

If you are speed/interval training in HS and end up at an all mileage school you will struggle.

Make sure you know what you are getting in to training wise and that the coach has a plan to individualize. Most of the distance transfers I have seen in my day or the ones who come in and never get better are because of this factor. The training doesn't work for them and the coach refuses to try anything beyond running 100 miles a week as the only way to be successful.

Those are some GREAT marks but you said she is starting her Jr. Year? Any good college coach worth there salt wont look at her times prior to being a Jr. as I can show you a huge list of girls that fell off the planet Jr. year. Also if I am correct and I believe I am.... If she is from Great Oak most major programs will not be interested uneless she is a Collins... Girls are destroyed by there senior year and most are riding the short bus to cheer on the freshman girls running 70 plus miles...

To Early wrote:

Those are some GREAT marks but you said she is starting her Jr. Year? Any good college coach worth there salt wont look at her times prior to being a Jr. as I can show you a huge list of girls that fell off the planet Jr. year. Also if I am correct and I believe I am.... If she is from Great Oak most major programs will not be interested uneless she is a Collins... Girls are destroyed by there senior year and most are riding the short bus to cheer on the freshman girls running 70 plus miles...

My daughter is starting her senior year. She started contacting college coaches at the start of her junior year. I am sorry I was not clearer above. My daughter typically has gotten her mileage up to 45 mpw with only about 3 weeks in the last year up to 50 mpw. Her 5K XC time has dropped by around a minute in each of the last two years and her 5000 meter track time this spring was about 40 seconds faster than her 2014 XC PR. So she has shown steady improvement year to year. I have seen many girls with great times their freshmen and sophomore years end up with injuries and run slower their junior and/or senior years. As a father of a runner it saddens me to see this happen. My daughter became interested in running much later than other girls and has not run high mileage so we think she can continue to improve this year and throughout college.

Carl Spackler wrote:

This is a broad question. If someone is a top-50 HS recruit, and there are 300+ D1 schools, then odds are good they can get a scholarship offer. There are more women's programs than men's, and there are more scholarships available to women than men for T&F.

The 5k time seems weak compared to the 1600 and 3200 times. Look for an on-line calculator to convert the 1600 time to a1500 time and the 3200 time to convert to a 5000 meter (track) time. Better yet, try to get the girl to run a 5k track race at an all-comers meet (or even a road race on a certified course). Then look at the conference meet results for some of the schools you are targeting (e.g., Pac 12 for Stanford). See how a 1500 or 5000 time would place in a conference meet. This is a good benchmark.

Nobody cares about 5k times in HS:)

If you a top 50 in the national XC runner you can get a full scholarship. The question is where. If you are a back of the pack footlocker runner (lets say you finished 30), you are projecting out to be a 6 or 7th plus runner on most top 15 teams. Yes some people improve more in college and some regress. You are not getting full rides for that type of ability. Show up at a top 50 school where you are projected to be a top 3 runner and they are a lot more interested.

And there is a ton of random stuff. A coach might only have 1 scholarship avaialbe and it just so happens a top 5 recruit is interested. Or maybe the coach doesn't like recruiting girls that have run high mileage in HS (50mpw is getting pretty close to that level). Heck maybe the coach likes blondes... Other than direct communication with a coach it is all a guessing game.

Please just be careful that this is what she really wants - she is very young and physiologically her body still has a lot of changes to go through which can really affect her running and her head. The fact you have spread sheets of College freshman charting their progress shows how intense you are - even though you are doing all this for the 100% right reasons, please be careful about the pressure you inadvertently place on her. Even though we all think our kids "want" this, do they sometimes want it because they see how much we as parents want it? Pressure isn't always an overt thing - just seeing how you talk and make spread sheets and know every other runners times etc can be enough to exert a level of pressure that a young girl doesn't need. I hope she goes to the movies, to the mall, to sleep overs and afternoon gatherings with friends. Please accept this comment in the spirit in which it is intended - you are a wonderful father to care so deeply about your daughters happiness and future

Might help for you to research each teams conference and how they regulate scholarships. For example I see you have some Big Ten schools. Big Ten now mandates that all scholarships be four year guarantees with no possibility of reduction. Also, many B10 schools offer the upper limit of the "cost of attendance" stipend as part of the scholarship, so all else equal, a scholarship at one of those institutions will be more money in your pocket versus a team in a conference that does not offer cost of attendance. Obviously my experience is in B10 so do your research for other conferences.

Good advice. It was her choice to start running road races a few years ago. She would ask us if she could run another one and she would look for one in the area. She helped talk me into running again after almost 30 years--I resisted for 6 months to a year. Once she started running on a high school team she only ran a few trail or road races and has not run any in the last year because she enjoys the break from races. It has been her choice to run in college. She wants to run on a competitive team. I first analyzed the times of recruits last year to see what she would need to run in high school to get recruited first by D2 teams and later D1 teams. I never told her the times until she after she later achieved the times. She is very independent when it comes setting and working toward her goals.

I have looked for post season and indoor season races for her because I want to make sure she has the information she needs to make an informed decision. I explain why some would be better than others. I have mentioned some to her coach. I let her decide which ones she wants to run. I don't push her to run any. Her coach has talked her into a few I mentioned that she initial had little interest in running. He is more persuasive than I am. I have told my family that they can come to me if the coach ever tries to talk them into something they don't want to do.

The only thing I pushed her on a little was to get started contacting coaches at the start of her junior year. She wanted to do it but needed some encouragement and some advice on how to get started. I learned that the student athlete needs to do the work rather than the parents so once she got started I just answered questions as to how many to contact, how to research teams and academic programs, when to start narrowing down the list of teams, etc. She did the research and contacted the coaches.

I have analyzed some of the teams recruiting her to see how prior recruits are progressing and to determine if I think she can contribute no later than her sophomore year. I want to make sure she has a good chance of competing as a member of the team at the important meets during her college years of running. I actually shocked my daughter and wife with several of my very blunt questions to a pair of coaches during an unofficial visit. With one of my questions I wanted to make sure they were very interested in recruiting my daughter given how good their recruiting classes have been. I wanted to make sure that they felt they had a need for another distance runner given all their prior recruits. I wanted to make sure they thought of her as a scholarship worthy recruit as opposed to a walk-on. If they thought of her as a walk-on then I would have explained to my daughter that it was less likely that they thought she would be able to contribute to the team and thus unlikely to run at most meets.

My daughter has a life outside of running including old friends who do not run and all the new friends she has made on the team.

Thank you for the information regarding four year guarantees. As you know from what I posted I do enjoy researching. I had read the news about the new four year guarantees but I am not sure what colleges offer it to runners and how it differs from auto-renewal of offers. There still appear to be loop-holes in the guarantees and I thought only a fraction of all athletes as any school receive a four year guarantee. See article link below. The stipend is also something that colleges can choose to offer to some athletes but are not required to offer it. I'll add these to my list of questions to ask when it comes time to discuss the scholarship offers with the coaches and my daughter.