Breaking: Victor Conte Says USADA Probe of Alberto Salazar needs to include an investigation of Nike & John Smith

I always find Conte interesting on the "what" of PED use - what substances are used and why. I don't find him interesting when he speculates on what percentage of athletes are using or what Nike is likely to do, etc, because I don't think he has any particular insider knowledge at this point.

And I REALLY wish the sanctimony surrounding PED use would be dropped and real research into the risk and benefits of using these substances would be undertaken.

p.s. Nike has never shown any interest in reducing PED use in sports. They want athletes wearing the swoosh to put on a good show and continue to build the brand.

80% microdosing? I doubt that 80% of elites can even explain what microdosing is

Haha, can't wait to hear the crybabies complain about your use of Breaking, even though you pointed out it is a joke at their expense.

Conte may have a different definition of "elite".

Victo Conte:

"“Guys can microdose, use fast-acting testosterone, and they can use IGF-1, they can use growth hormone, they can use EPO (to trigger an increase in red blood cells), there’s all sorts of things that these athletes can do, because the clearance times are very fast, and the tests are not very extensive and some of them are subjective,” Conte said.

“In essence, what I’m telling you is the smart person who understands how to use these substances and the way the testing works . . . it’s like taking candy from a baby. It’s quite easy to circumvent the testing.”

And the school kids get an Rx for amphetamine. Doped top to bottom.

Maurice Greene is the figure on the IAAF logo. IAAF is not going to go against Greene.

For the same reasons, Hicham El Guerrouj always is going to be viewed as a clean athlete. He's an IAAF ambassador, so he's untouchable, and therefore, anybody named El G's blood samples as one of the suspicious values.

There are other "untouchable" athletes for IAAF, like Fermin Cacho, Bernard Lagat, Haile Gebreselassie, Yelena, Bekele, Bolt and Mo Farah.

If USADA goes for John Smith, it would be the death of many sprinting heroes (not only American Athletes, but USADA doesn't have jurisdiction with many of them).

Maurice Greene, Ato Boldon (also working with IAAF, although it's rumored that Boldon wrote that letter to John Smith and Mo Greene acussing them of cheating) Carmelita Jeter, Keving Young, Jason Richardson, Torri Edwards, Dawn Harper, Quincy Watts, Inger Miller, Jon Drummond, Allen Johnson, Marie Jose Perec, Richard Thompson, Jehue Gordon, etc.

From memory, Mo Greene was investigated extensively based mainly on a check he wrote to BALCO for the purchase of drugs. Mo in his prime was one of the highest paid track and field athletes and was able to prove that he woke checks for a number of athletes for all sorts of things. The BALCO check was a one time purchase he made for another athlete not realizing it was for a banned substance.

"I doubt that 80% of elites can even explain what microdosing is'

-oh, how wrong you are. knowing what it involves/how it works is very common knowledge- among the male population, at least.

Who is LetsRun.com, Your Benevolent Dictator? When a post appears under the moniker, who typed it out? Wejo, Rojo, Employee #1? Is it a moniker used to state an official LRC position as opposed to a personal opinion of one of the owners or workers? Just wondering here.

vklzvlkk wrote:

Who is LetsRun.com, Your Benevolent Dictator? When a post appears under the moniker, who typed it out? Wejo, Rojo, Employee #1? Is it a moniker used to state an official LRC position as opposed to a personal opinion of one of the owners or workers? Just wondering here.

Dictators never reveal their secrets. (Actually a few us can post under this name. It is meant to be used for sitewide messages and not personal opinions)

[quote]TrackCoach wrote:

From memory, Mo Greene was investigated extensively based mainly on a check he wrote to BALCO for the purchase of drugs. Mo in his prime was one of the highest paid track and field athletes and was able to prove that he woke checks for a number of athletes for all sorts of things. The BALCO check was a one time purchase he made for another athlete not realizing it was for a banned substance.

Don't forget that Heredia was a Mexican drug pusher trying to stay out of Jail. Not the most reliable witness you could come up with.

Regarding Nike, NOP was not officially started by a rogue coach named Salazar. It was started by (then) corporate vice president Thomas Clark, who is now president of the company. And we have documented evidence that the Nike Lab new that Rupp was on "testosterone medication." And let's not forget that this is the same company alleged by Greg Lemonde's wife to have paid a $500,000 bribe to UCI to cover up a Lance Armstrong positive PED test about 10 years ago. My opinion is that they're up to their eyeballs in conspiracy to dope at least distance athletes, and the only question is whether USADA could find the evidence to prove it.

And then there's Gatlin. At the same time of the year, he goes from running 9.87 and 9,91 before signing with Nike, to running 9.75--and not once for a peak performance but several times--after signing with Nike. If you want to claim that Gatlin's BETTER performances now are from latent effect of doping 10 years ago, or that he's doping more now than he got "caught" for back then, I think you are running straight into the teeth or Occam's Razor. I think the simpler answer is that he wasn't doping back then (he was set up because USADA needed athletes to testify against Trevor Graham) but he IS doping now: Microdosing testosterone with the help of the same Nike Lab that helped Salazar dope Rupp.

Wejo, when you kept badgering Gatlin about "coming clean" about 10 years ago, you blew it. You should have asked him if he could explain the sudden improvement in performance after signing with Nike (same coach, same training, same training location...but almost the same improvement that others got from BALCO). The way I see it, there is one answer, and you know what that is.

coach d wrote:

And then there's Gatlin. At the same time of the year, he goes from running 9.87 and 9,91 before signing with Nike, to running 9.75--and not once for a peak performance but several times--after signing with Nike. If you want to claim that Gatlin's BETTER performances now are from latent effect of doping 10 years ago, or that he's doping more now than he got "caught" for back then, I think you are running straight into the teeth or Occam's Razor. I think the simpler answer is that he wasn't doping back then (he was set up because USADA needed athletes to testify against Trevor Graham) but he IS doping now: Microdosing testosterone with the help of the same Nike Lab that helped Salazar dope Rupp.

coach d: You know much more about the sprint world than I do, so please explain why you think that Trevor Graham WASN'T giving Gatlin PEDs back in the day? I thought the consensus opinion was that Graham was giving PEDs to all of his athletes.

p.s. I share your belief that Gatlin was set up when he was busted, but I also think Graham was giving him PEDs at the time.

In reality, this coach d guy knows sh*t. He has been here on so many topics, as the self-defined "expert", and has been way off base more often than not. The only thing that he is consistent about him is his blind hatred of anything Nike.

The wise approach with coach d is to take everything he posts with a very large grain of salt.

I really like listening to Victor speak. For anyone who hasn't seen it, here he is on the Joe Rogan podcast talking about BALCO, how he began as a PED supplier, his time in prison, his opinion on how people are doping now and all kinds of other stuff. His time in prison sounded like great fun, better than being on the outside for most people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17FGgWghDOE

Listen up. Vic knows of what he speaks. Gatlin was not set up in 2006. He was doping and got popped. His people had just gotten new drugs from Angel H. Smith and Vic have a long history detailed elsewhere but its not just a vendetta by Vic against Smith.

Salazar started "consulting" with Smith at same time he consulted with Lance A. Birds of a feather fly together.

Gatlin's rise this year is all part of Nike master plan to dethrone Bolt. When Bolt re-signed with Puma and spurned Nike then Nike said F you and set eyes on knocking off Bolt. Nike signs Dennis Mitchell to contract and thus forced Gatlin to sign with Nike for less than X-tep but also promised him full Nike support in EVERY way.

Anyone who believes Gatlin was set up in his drug bust is a fool. Whetstine was well paid for his beat down by Nike running employee and still treated many Nike athletes at US Nationals since he lives and works in Eugene. Everyone in the sport knows this so I wish people who wish they knew more would quit defending Gatlin for the claim by Trevor Graham.

Sadly clean sport loses out as IAAF is now being bought by Nike which has back room dealed a sponsorship to supplant adidas when the deal ends in 2020 hence the reason Eugene got the Worlds in 2021.

Conte should be alerting USADA to go after the Mitchell camp as much as the Smith camp as many have obviously been speculating. Pics I have seen have placed Angel H and Mitchell together a couple times this year. BBC needs to have someone tail Angel H for a year and this sport could be cleaned up significantly. Assuming WADA and USADA will fully pursue drug issues which the story early this week casts doubt on.

Let me ask a dumb question.

A hypothetical sprinter uses HGH between 2005 and 2010. During that time he experiences a huge growth in muscle density and strength. He is found out and banned for 2 years. During that 2 year he stays clean but works hard to maintain his ill-gotten gains. Once he returns from his ban isn't he still benefiting from his HGH use, as he may never have experienced the same muscular development without them?

Similarly with distance runners, wouldn't EPO use early in their career benefit them years later? Peter Coe said that Seb go away with not doing high-mileage because of the endurance he gained in his youth. Similarly Steve Jones said that traveling a mile and a half to and from school every day helped him build his endurance, contributing to his success in his professional career.

dkny64 wrote:

coach d: You know much more about the sprint world than I do, so please explain why you think that Trevor Graham WASN'T giving Gatlin PEDs back in the day? I thought the consensus opinion was that Graham was giving PEDs to all of his athletes.

p.s. I share your belief that Gatlin was set up when he was busted, but I also think Graham was giving him PEDs at the time.

Shawn Crawford also did not test positive with Trevor Graham. He was "busted" for not filling out the paperwork right when he retired (missed 3 tests).

Gatlin has improved almost as much since signing with Nike (1.5%) as Kelli White did with BALCO (2%). Do you really think microdosing testosterone is BETTER than a designer steroid? He has been with the same coach and location for some time (and had already improved quite a bit from when he just started back from his doping ban)...and then suddenly--supposedly without changed anything--it's like he just started a doping program. That is what makes me really suspicious about what happened 10 years ago.

The other thing that makes me suspicious is that, without being injured, he went from his race to being rubbed down by Whetstine and THEN to doping control. That's not how the doping control protocol is supposed to work. You are supposed to go DIRECTLY to doping control, so you can't dilute your urine, take a masking agent, and stuff like that.

How did he get from 9.90 to 9.75 IN ONE YEAR at his age? How did he get from 9.77 once 10 years younger to 9.75 several times if he was doping then?

Ato Boldon letter to John Smith (not 100% confirmed, but still):

"To Benedict Arnold, aka the Great Betrayer .

I was so eagerly anticipating the meeting that was supposed to happen among you and I and Emanuel in Texas, so I could say this all to your face, since it's been brewing inside me for 4 months, but apparently his "Highness" Nawaf, another insufferable, know-it-all, piece of excrement, was more happy to over-eat and get publicly drunk with you (as usual) and pretend "it's all good" in LA-LA Land . Oh, yes, he did find the time to beg me for an hour to "please come up with a plan to save your black Rectus humongus" since you are, in his words, "unintelligent and would not survive for very long if this all goes down badly" . Imagine that . Me bail you out? For what? My own coach, doping my competition while he smiles in my face and preaches the "we are clean and they are not" gospel . DAILY .

Poor JD was right all along . Of course you favored one horse above all others - you WOW .

Thank God for the opportunity to be rid of both you and Nawaf in one fell swoop .

Integrity .

Loyalty .

Honor . Look them up in the dictionary . You preach it daily to your athletes and to anyone who will listen to you go on and on about nothing . They aren't stupid, they WILL figure you out . Most already have .

Since neither you nor the so-called "GOAT" has had the balls to sit down one-on-one with me (at any time in the past 4 months!!) OR EVEN PICK UP A PHONE TO CALL and explain anything about what you all conspired to do without anyone else's knowledge in the group, (and in turn, now taint everyone who has ever worked with you, even if they decided not to go this DRUG route) and I have to read it in the paper, even though I already know not just what the paper said, but way, way more, this, I guess is what it has to come to . AN HONEST E-MAIL, from someone who has been around you for

This, from three "men" who walk around like they are alpha-males, king-dick-swingers, the leaders of the pack . Larry, I can understand . He is incapable of doing anything but following his Rectus humongus with his nose or being a King George Bush 2-up . His whole life is testament to that . You and Maurice, well, history will certainly record you two accurately, I hope .

The first mistake the three of you made was pretending any of you was capable of any leadership worth a sorrowful cent . If you could lead anything, there wouldn't be need for Emanuel Hudson, whether or not your ego allows you to accept that . That's why I have to laugh at how brilliant this "plan" was from the get-go . Three idiots, who think they are so much smarter than the whole world . Wires from personal bank accounts, packages arriving to Onacrest Drive , personal emails, personal phone calls .

ABSOLUTELY brilliant work!

I was thinking last night that it's a good thing you 3 didn't plan to rob a bank, because you would all NOW be doing hard time, with your dumb asses .

And yet, knowing that this was coming since 2007, NONE of you have even picked up the phone to call me to say "ay, man I know you heard such and such, and this is the situation" . No, it's not like we were on the same team, or part of the same "family", right? It's not like I didn't spend the past 13 years defending anyone who dared to talk about anyone in my camp or in my group . I never did that, right? Donovan opened his mouth to DARE talk about my "boy" Maurice, and I was on him in a flash, why because when you are down, when you have each other's backs, that is what REAL MEN do - they back each other up, not King George Bush 2 each other over . Donovan was right too . My bad for thinking that I could trust any of you or believe a word you said .

I vouched for everyone . When Larry's Rectus humongus went down (of course that mystery positive of his isn't so mysterious now, is it?) it was my house that I called the meeting to, because if one was going through anything WE ALL WERE . But he is already on his way out in more ways than one, he just doesn't know it . . . . or maybe he does . . . . .

HSI is the best thing that ever happened to you, and you couldn't help but King George Bush 2 that up, could you? You are a walking tragedy . Now you will be back to less than the alternative . Remember what you had and how you got where you are about to go, Mr . Smith . Reality is about to smack you in the face .

I might have an ounce of respect left for either of the two of you, the "GOAT" or yourself, if you had called me up when this first broke to at least attempt to explain - like MEN - who are supposedly down for each other, do . You knew I knew, and yet both of you have done what you do best . Huddle in a corner and hide, and not let the people closest to you know you King George Bush 2ed up, so maybe they could either 1)help in the thinking department which clearly IS NOT a strong-point for any of you, or 2) watch their own asses . So manly of you . Just pretend it will all go away and no one will remember . Ah, but karma is a princess . Maurice is already finding that out, and quick! Woman, house, cars, lifestyle, career, money, future, everything, GONE!

Imagine you are laughing and joking with me every single day on the track for months this year, and you knew damn well I know what I know, and you are totally cool with that . . . . as though I'm some kind of sorrowful idiot - not once have you said a word about any of this . . . . . "duck and run" as usual . You have become so good at it, too . Must be the years of practice .

Now, we all are embarrassed and forever stained because of you and your slap! . And just in case you, too, think "you took a chance on me in '95" as Darrell so eloquently put it (yeah, a 20 year-old who came to you with international medals and running 10 . 07 - big chance that was!) remember I took a chance on you long before, because I didn't come to you with drug baggage - you were the one with the rumors and the stuff in the book . I came anyway, because I believed all that slap! you were selling about "drug-free", and since I never saw it in my face, I could actually believe it . Drug Free, my Rectus humongus . You are an older Trevor Graham . PERIOD - on a different coast of the USA - and that isn't easy for me to say, because you know what I think about Trevor . You think running to West Angeles Church every time you are about to get caught will solve something? I went to West Angeles for 10 years and probably saw you twice . God has a message for you, JS, "Don't give drugs to people's children! Steer them away from it if they ask you, too!"

There's your salvation!

Look around you . Everything around you is withering and/or dying . How can that be? You have won not a single medal that matters since 2004, and not a clean one since 2003 (poor Torri) . Is it because you have sowed nothing but poison and deceit your entire life, and now the brief stay you had "at the top" is now over? Say what you want about me and my failure to win the BIG ones, but I did it cleanly, and I can look you or anyone else in the face, not to mention myself in the mirror, for the rest of my life . I know that, and so DO YOU . But it all makes sense now - This is why you were unceremoniously removed from UCLA . This is why Kerron Clement and just about everyone else who would be considered top-notch talent for years now is steering WAY clear of you . Maybe you don't get that . I think you will now .

I realize it now, and it's sad to see what you have become . You used to be a hero of mine . Now I wouldn't want my dog to piss on you if you were on fire . That ain't no emotional nothing, either, brother, that is REAL TALK . Man to man, the way you should have come at me from the jump . It's that much disgust . That's what happens when a black man you look up to deceives you for years, while pretending and smiling in your face .

John Smith the great "sprint guru" is nothing but the emperor with no clothes . No, wait a minute, we know you can coach someone to 9 . 86 x4 and 19 . 77 . The rest I can't vouch for, ever .

Naked . . . . .

. . . with a big vial of drugs, slap! theories and hypocrisy by the pound behind the curtain . Now we all understand why you always had to go run over and kiss Trevor's Rectus humongus every damn where when you KNEW we didn't trust him . Now I understand why, despite the fact that he raided your camp, talks about your deteriorating coaching skills and basically plays you for a fool, you are always in Larry Wade's face yukking it up . Enjoy that . Birds of a feather . . . .

This case in the NY Times is not some mistake, some "oops" moment, some misstep, some one-time weakness, it's a pattern, and going back to the stuff written about you in Speed Trap after 1988, right up to you know who in 2007, almost 20 years later - nothing has changed - and what that most recent case reveals about what you ARE and ARE not willing to do, of course while preaching the usual JOHN SMITH slap! - is that this is who you are and what you are and how you operate . Stop pretending it isn't . Imagine, I doubt now whether a single one of the people whose careers I respect, was likely clean, if you were their coach .

Not Q, not Steve, not any of them . Imagine K . Young is calling around now to find out how far back they can "check excrement" . . . . . why would he be doing that, you think?

Let me cut to the chase, as it concerns your ultimate betrayal, as you doped my competition and my teammates while professing to the world (and of course to me) that you were the "drug free coach" . When you see me somewhere, just pretend you don't . You are dead to me .

Don't mention my name, don't have a single thing to say about me, because to me you are the scum of the earth, the ultimate deceiver, who preaches one thing and lives another .

We have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God . The difference is, I would never King George Bush 2 any of you over the way you have, to everyone who now has to answer for your slap! while you remain quiet, hoping it will all blow over . It won't and your name will likely be the next name called, so don't think you got off because your name isn't in this one .

If you think things seem "rough" now, imagine where you will be in ten years time .

You've earned it! You can't sow deceit and reap success and prosperity - and if you do, its very fleeting . You of all people should know that . Yet nothing changes . Still trying to get people on the stuff, huh, JS? (Of course while the others know nothing of it) . I pray God rescues your soul, my "brother" .

P . S . In case you think somehow this email is somehow a reason for me to not have to confront you face to face, think again .

I realized, in 4 months, that you have no intention of confronting any of your own demons, and certainly not little old silly me, since you actually now believe your own slap! (it's ok, I did for some time, as well) so why should I bother . You can discard this when you are done reading it, as I have discarded the mirage that passed for most of the family and relationships that existed within HSI . Don't try to say excrement to me now in any way shape or form . You had your chance to say something since December, or maybe when this brilliant plan was concocted so I could have exited then (as I tried to in 2002 - note to self always trust your instincts!) but you were content to play me for a further fool . Pretend you don't see me when we are in public, because I will certainly do the same . Anything to the contrary and we are going to have a problem, and so will everyone else around .

You all made your bed . I will be RIGHT here to watch you burn in it, and there ain't a fire extinguisher that will put this one out .

You want to King George Bush 2 people over and plot behind people's backs? So be it . Now you deal with the repercussions .

Change your ways, John . Hypocrisy will be early death of you . Mark my words . You can't speak one thing and live another .

R . I . P . H . S . I"

Blazzed and confused wrote:

Conte should be alerting USADA to go after the Mitchell camp as much as the Smith camp as many have obviously been speculating. Pics I have seen have placed Angel H and Mitchell together a couple times this year. BBC needs to have someone tail Angel H for a year and this sport could be cleaned up significantly. Assuming WADA and USADA will fully pursue drug issues which the story early this week casts doubt on.

A couple of things:

1. Usada has no authority. They can collect needles falling out of Angel's bag and video of athletes administering each othwr and usatf/IAAF will elect to do nothing. IAAF/usatf retain all authority to sanction athletes.

2. The only thing following Angel around would do is upset the IAAF. Access to athletes is the "currency" and BBC would lose it all. The BBC knows this.

The IOC and IAaF are okay with doping until they aren't. Nobody quite understands when that is, not even the athletes.