Building My Base - HADD Training

How old are you?

Please list your old PRs and describe how you trained to run them.

It would also be useful to either run a race or do Hadd's test to know what shape you have currently.

why 142?

Don't waste your time unless you actually fit Hadd's criteria. That is, you're a fast twitch runner who has only trained intervals for a long time.

Most people who are lured by Hadd training are old guys who don't like to run fast and look to Hadd for an easy way to become a fast runner. If you're one of them, forget it. You won't.

I am 30 years old.

My latest PR was a 16:5X in 5K late May. Maybe this weekend, or next week on Tuesday or Wednesday I will do the test.

To the other poster, I was running with my HR monitor on, and my HR max is 194 (that I have seen). 70-75% is like 136 - 145. So I set my Garmin to alert if I got to 145. I ended up with 142.

I would say I am definitely fast twitch. I don't think in my life I ever had a really solid aerobic base. My paces were always much slower at longer distances than they should have been.

Then good luck!

If I were you I wouldn't neglect speed though. Either frequent striders or a dedicated fast session like malmo's 10x150-200. Hadd's 200/200 at 10k/easy simply won't cut it.

That's a good call. What is Malmo's 10x200? Could you provide a link? I will do strides at least 2x a week, maybe 3? Or at least 1 time a week malmo?

I prefer a more conventional approach, you will probably find this useful:

http://www.forwardfitnessperformance.com/2015/04/06/base-training-the-key-to-huge-improvements-in-race-performances/

There are many steps along the fast to slow twitch continuum. Hadd training can help all parts of the continuum but most of the steps shouldn't do it the way Joe did it. I doubt that the fastest side of the distance running continuum is the best for Hadd training, say 800 or 1500m guys.

7.8.15

35:00 - 3.2 @ 143 HRav

8.8.15

45:00 - 4.32 @ 142 HRav

- Cross-training later in the day for 60 minutes.

9.8.15

60:00 - 6.13 @ 141 HRav

I feel like my body does want to burn fat. I ate a high carb day after my run and cross training, and my pace picked up again. Hopefully by keeping the HR low I can convince my body to finally start burning fat for fuel.

Will update again in a couple days.

there is no easy way wrote:

Don't waste your time unless you actually fit Hadd's criteria. That is, you're a fast twitch runner who has only trained intervals for a long time.

You clearly don't know much about Hadd training...

9.9.15

60:00 - 6.13 @ 141 HRav

10.9.15

30:00 - 2.97 @ 138 HRav

11.9.15

60:00 - 5.87 @ 143 HRav

So I see why no one has the patience to keep doing this. I have only been at it a little over a week and I am already annoyed at running so slow. I think I am going to let me HR trend up -slightly- more tomorrow to finish around 150 HRav. I know HADD said that this was okay in the beginning anyways for relatively "untrained" runners so that way they aren't just walking. I will use this until the paces come down a little bit and then move back to 140-145 HRav.

12.8.15

45:00 - 4.81 (9:21) @ 147 HRav

Felt a lot better trending up on HR today. I felt like I was actually moving, albiet still slowly. I also had some ice cream during the day so maybe that boosted energy levels slightly.

13.8.15

OFF

14.8.15

50:00 - 5.14 (9:16) @ 147 HRav

15.8.15

45:00 - 4.59 (9:48) @ 148 HRav

16.8.15

90:00 - 9.03 (9:57) @ 149 HRav

17.8.15

45:00 - 4.34 (10:22) @ 147 HRav

Okay this is just getting ridiculous. I mean, it was really hot today (90 + humidity 'feels like 95'). But seriously? 10:22?

Has any one else that has done HADD training phase 1 have any suggestions here? Should I go at around 8:45 - 9:00 pace for now until my HR calms down or should I keep abiding my HR? This is getting a little crazy..

Thanks!

HADDrunner wrote:

Okay this is just getting ridiculous. I mean, it was really hot today (90 + humidity 'feels like 95'). But seriously? 10:22?

Has any one else that has done HADD training phase 1 have any suggestions here? Should I go at around 8:45 - 9:00 pace for now until my HR calms down or should I keep abiding my HR? This is getting a little crazy..

First, try running when it isn't so hot. Really early or late in the day. If that's not feasible, try some cooling strategies: you can try some pre-cooling strategies (google it)... carry a stainless steel water bottle with you that's filled with ice water and sip it as you run (if you aren't thirsty, just swish it in your mouth and spit it out or pour it on yourself as you run).

If your HR is high, but the effort feels lower than normal, I'd say you can go off of perceived exertion. But be honest with yourself on this... if the HR is abnormally high and the heat is increasing your perceived exertion, just stick with 150 bpm and lower (and try avoiding hit/practice cooling strategies).

Have you done a 2400m test yet?

Also, I wouldn't do ONLY 150bpm or lower running. You should do strides a couple times per week and 1 or 2 runs per week between 150bpm and LTHR... just a little at a time. Perhaps start with 10 minutes in a run.

Yeah, yesterday just so happened that I had to run at the hottest time of day because of stupid meetings at work and stuff. I will definitely look into those pre cooling strategies and try to start running earlier in the morning.

I haven't done the 2400m yet, I waiting until I got to 50mpw again, last week I did about 33. This week I will probably do about 40.

How do I decided what to run at for the run that is LTHR? Is there a way to estimate my current LTHR, or is that where the 2400s come in?

Appreciate your reply!

HADDrunner wrote:

I haven't done the 2400m yet, I waiting until I got to 50mpw again, last week I did about 33. This week I will probably do about 40.

How do I decided what to run at for the run that is LTHR? Is there a way to estimate my current LTHR, or is that where the 2400s come in?

Appreciate your reply!

That's not a bad idea to wait on the 2400m test. When you hit 50, you might take a lighter week to unload a bit, and then do the 2400m test at the end of that week. (If you do, you should do the test at the end of a "rest" week thereafter to keep the test under similar conditions.)

The initial LTHR for a MHR of 193+ is set at 155 - 160 bpm. While you're building to 50mpw, you might do strides twice per week and do a LTHR run once per week. For the LTHR run, do a good warm-up followed by some running at 150HR or lower. Then, slowly build your HR to 155 - 160 bpm and hold it for 10 to 20 minutes. See how that goes and let us know! If you have a hard time holding back for the LTHR portion, do the strides (light jogging rest) before your LTHR segment.

Great, thanks again. Tonight I will do easy running for 20 minutes (under 150), followed by 10-20 between 155-160, and then cool down easy 20 minutes (under 150).