Why are local 2hr+ HM & 5hr+ marathoners allowed to sell out races 6months in advance and keep a sub3 marathoner out?

Buffalo Marathon in the spring and Niagara Falls International Marathon in the fall. Pretty quick courses though not a lot of top competition.

speaking as a sub-3 hour marathoner.........I think it's because my/our presence vs. that of a 5+-hour marathoner makes basically zero difference to the race, so why should they hold a slot and wait to see how my training cycle is going?

I'd love it if one didn't have to commit so early, but I think it's completely independent of the participant's predicted finish time.

Depending on where you live or are easily able to travel, there are options. marathonguide is a good site for researching them.

As an example, i'm in the DC area, and Marine Corps in Oct. or Rock & Roll in March fit the big/urban/expensive category, but you can also opt for, say, B & A Trail in Spring [mostly flat, bike path, small, well-organized, fast. My 1/2 PR is from that one] or NCR trail in November [haven't done it, but i gather similar].

At the smaller ones you may be in between packs sometimes, and nobody from the office will ask you about it [i've run marine corps maybe 5 times the past 38 years, and every single year the day after the race a half-dozen or so people who are dimly aware I run flag me down to ask if I ran it], but it can be a great race experience.

Good luck with your search,

Dave

The answer is that the 2/5hr runners pay all the bills at races and call the shots. Any attempt to grant any sort of preferential treatment based on time gets them hoping mad at race directors, with large training groups making threats. A big training group in Houston started their own marathon after Houston stopped letting walkers start the race early, forcing elites and faster runners to weave through random herds of walkers on the course. Similar hate was thrown when a two tiered registration system was set up to allow blazing fast sub 4 hour marathoners to have guaranteed entry over everyone else who had to go in a lottery.

I think races should do more to provide benefits to faster runners. At most large sellout events, only the top 100-200 are sub 3 marathoners. I would guess that maybe only 200-300 runners have sub 3 times going into those races. So, there would be no harm at all in letting those runners enter late, have preferred corral position, etc.

"I think it's because my/our presence vs. that of a 5+-hour marathoner makes basically zero difference to the race, so why should they hold a slot and wait to see how my training cycle is going?"

This^

Granted if I had a race I'd rather attract a big AND competitive field. The training groups thing cannot be over stated. These local gurus set themselves up and then wield that stick early and often.

If you get far enough under 3, I'm sure the race director will let you in...very far enough under 3 and the race director will comp you entry, get you a hotel room, etc.

Why do you hate the free market so much?

Gotta stay low key wrote:

Why are local 2hr+ HM & 5hr+ marathoners allowed to sell out races 6months in advance and keep a sub3 marathoner out?

The issue: For serious runners they don't necessarily know a training cycle during marathon buildup is going to go smoothly and may only want to register as it gets closer to the race (such as 2 months prior) rather than be forced to register 6 month in advance of a half marathon/marathon or, worse, be forced to participate in a lottery registration (e.g. Houston Marathon, RnR New Orleans -> I'm not talking huge ones like NYC/Chicago/Boston here, those are obviously exceptions.)

Bottom Line: Does anyone have a list of the low-key faster marathon courses for the serious but non-elite runner?

Precious Roy wrote:

The answer is that the 2/5hr runners pay all the bills at races and call the shots. Any attempt to grant any sort of preferential treatment based on time gets them hoping mad at race directors, with large training groups making threats. A big training group in Houston started their own marathon after Houston stopped letting walkers start the race early, forcing elites and faster runners to weave through random herds of walkers on the course. Similar hate was thrown when a two tiered registration system was set up to allow blazing fast sub 4 hour marathoners to have guaranteed entry over everyone else who had to go in a lottery.

.

Exaggerate much?

Because the goal of marathon organizers is to obtain the most money.

Why should 2:50 hobby joggers take priority over 5 hour hobby joggers?

Gotta stay low key wrote:

Why are local 2hr+ HM & 5hr+ marathoners allowed to sell out races 6months in advance and keep a sub3 marathoner out?

The issue: For serious runners they don't necessarily know a training cycle during marathon buildup is going to go smoothly and may only want to register as it gets closer to the race (such as 2 months prior) rather than be forced to register 6 month in advance of a half marathon/marathon or, worse, be forced to participate in a lottery registration (e.g. Houston Marathon, RnR New Orleans -> I'm not talking huge ones like NYC/Chicago/Boston here, those are obviously exceptions.)

Bottom Line: Does anyone have a list of the low-key faster marathon courses for the serious but non-elite runner?

If you were talking about elites getting shut out you would have a case. Your a hobby jogger., There'e no difference between you and 5 hour marathoners.

Gotta stay low key wrote:

Why are local 2hr+ HM & 5hr+ marathoners allowed to sell out races 6months in advance and keep a sub3 marathoner out?

The issue: For serious runners they don't necessarily know a training cycle during marathon buildup is going to go smoothly and may only want to register as it gets closer to the race (such as 2 months prior) rather than be forced to register 6 month in advance of a half marathon/marathon or, worse, be forced to participate in a lottery registration (e.g. Houston Marathon, RnR New Orleans -> I'm not talking huge ones like NYC/Chicago/Boston here, those are obviously exceptions.)

Bottom Line: Does anyone have a list of the low-key faster marathon courses for the serious but non-elite runner?

Where are you located and what part of the year are you planning to run?

What do you consider elite for men? 2:30?

Don't expect special treatment unless you're under 2:20, maybe 2:30.

Do what I do and register for 2-3 marathons and then run whichever eventually fits your schedule. Most hotels let you cancel reservations the day of.

It doesn't work if you have to fly to them though.

I would assume that in general, the slower the runner, the more money they spend buying useless sh!t at the expo.

I dunno where you live, but where I live I can find a quality marathon-course within a 3 hour drive on race-day at just about any point during the fall and spring marathon "seasons".

My standards for quality?

-Accurate timing,

-quality course marshalling

-adequate aid stations (6-8 with water+gatorade)

It gets a little harder to find USATF sanctioned marathons on race day...but I might just have to increase my drive time to 6 hours.

Breaking three makes you special ? Awesome.

Why should elites receive special treatment if a sub 3 weekend warrior doesn't get any? Where do we draw the line here?

Not fair to wrote:

Why should elites receive special treatment if a sub 3 weekend warrior doesn't get any? Where do we draw the line here?

Because they are professionals who the race organizers pay to be there. The same reason Taylor Swift makes more money than when you sing karaoke.