Why does the base phase appear so different between coaches?

Canova expects you to have 10 years of base training before you follow his advice.

Does he? I am not as much familiar as I am with other coaches's methods. Do you have a source on his training with 10 years of base?

Does he believe you should not race?

Daniels base is emphasized more in the new edition. Also, his PII and PIII have lots of M-pace and long T-pace runs, which is Lydiard base-type training.

When you look at the whole plan, in implementation, the differences between the 2015 iterations of the most successful plans are not that great. The biggest difference is usually more miles with easy runs at a gentler pace, vs less miles with more high-end aerobic work.

1. Everyone wants to try to reinvent the wheel.

2. Cookie cutter programs sells books.

Someone with years of 100-120 mile weeks probably doesn't need much emphasis on building base mileage vs someone who hasn't cracked 50.

ThInk bIg pIcture. ThInk broad concepts and then tIghten your shot group. Broad concepts: SpecIfIc AdaptatIon to ProgressIve Overload. Too often we do a workout just because it sounds hard or because we think we need to do it or because some elite or old timer does it. So how do various workouts tie into your race goals? How often are you racing? How does this day's training compared to yesterday's? This week vs last week? This month vs last month? This year vs last year? Too often we spin the wheels without really going anywhere.

Alan

Because some coaches are good and others are not.

Somebody who has run 100-120 miles per week for 10 years is likely to be sick injured or exhausted

Base phase is an outdated simplistic concept. You train for adaptations and periodize elements to get results

dsrunner wrote:

Base phase is an outdated simplistic concept. You train for adaptations and periodize elements to get results

Which would include a phase spent developing your cardiovascular system, i.e., a base phase.

HRE wrote:

Which would include a phase spent developing your cardiovascular system, i.e., a base phase.

Except base phase doesn't really do that, unless you're not aerobically trained already. After a season of aerobically-intense competition, slow volume isn't going to add anything, at best it just slows your off-season regression.

There are other benefits that are mistaken for aerobic improvement, in particular the muscoluskeletal adaptations that accrue over the years. But I think it's really done just out of practicality - in cold weather, what else can you do?

Periodization is a non-science, so there is no "correct" way to do it.

I think in "Running to the Top", Lydiard basically recommends open-ended base training until 6 weeks before competition. These are "philosophical" differences between coaches for different circumstances to place relative emphasis on base phase. Most US coaches structure their plans around the US school school system (Fall XC, Spring track) with two periodizations/year and training structured around that. Or the structure is typically around marathon training.

True. I adjusted it a little to meet the needs of the team and the company.

BTW, GT deserves the credit on the insight about leading entrepreneurs.

Bad Wigins wrote:

HRE wrote:

Which would include a phase spent developing your cardiovascular system, i.e., a base phase.

Except base phase doesn't really do that, unless you're not aerobically trained already. After a season of aerobically-intense competition, slow volume isn't going to add anything, at best it just slows your off-season regression.

There are other benefits that are mistaken for aerobic improvement, in particular the muscoluskeletal adaptations that accrue over the years. But I think it's really done just out of practicality - in cold weather, what else can you do?

Just one more nail in your coffin. How can anyone not understand what "base training" does and come up with what you wrote?

What did they do to you growing up?

What will they try next? wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

Except base phase doesn't really do that, unless you're not aerobically trained already. After a season of aerobically-intense competition, slow volume isn't going to add anything, at best it just slows your off-season regression.

There are other benefits that are mistaken for aerobic improvement, in particular the muscoluskeletal adaptations that accrue over the years. But I think it's really done just out of practicality - in cold weather, what else can you do?

Just one more nail in your coffin. How can anyone not understand what "base training" does and come up with what you wrote?

What did they do to you growing up?

While Wigins is obviously an idiot, there is some truth in what he's saying here. Part of the reason for doing base is that it would be very difficult to train at high intensity year round--not just because of hot and cold weather, but also because of the need for physical and mental breaks. Many elite marathoners don't do specific prep periods of more than 8 weeks. 12 weeks seems to be about the max.

Nice, I never really thought of PII and PIII that way, I will need to read the plans again. In my memory, Daniels was more speed first in this training philosophy.

Mr E wrote:

What will they try next? wrote:

Just one more nail in your coffin. How can anyone not understand what "base training" does and come up with what you wrote?

What did they do to you growing up?

While Wigins is obviously an idiot, there is some truth in what he's saying here. Part of the reason for doing base is that it would be very difficult to train at high intensity year round--not just because of hot and cold weather, but also because of the need for physical and mental breaks. Many elite marathoners don't do specific prep periods of more than 8 weeks. 12 weeks seems to be about the max.

After reading Wiggins post I was just about to respond when your post took my thoughts word for word and sentence by sentance. Well done.

Base is one of the most commonly misunderstood aspects of training. Many think that "base" is the A in an A-B-C progression. If circumstance (injury or illness) interrupts this strict progression they think that all is loss and must now start over for some future training progression. The truth is you are constantly building base, even during your racing phase. Everything you do today will carry forward to what you do in the future.

All your base are belong to us.