Finally ran an easy run today.

Sounds like you run about 19:30 for a 5K, and that you're in high school. Being that young, I don't see why you're having so much difficulty with 35 mpw - that's pretty low.

That being said, your 9:15 sounds way too slow. I'm guessing most of your "quality" runs are at a 7:30ish pace, so I would say somewhere between 8 - 8:30 is good for your easy recovery runs.

Not sure why you're doing intervals during summer base training, where your number 1 goal is to build high quality mileage, but OK. Tempo/fartleks should be enough.

Also, ignore most of the stuff you see online regarding training - they are geared towards the average runner, i.e., casual, social runners who are in their 20s or 30s. As a young high school runner, your body is much stronger, can adapt faster and is more resilient. 35mpw is low mileage for a competitive high school runner. Your body can handle way more.

Up your mileage and maintain slow paces this summer. Throw in some strides & tempo every once and awhile. Running 35mpw will take you nowhere. Try running much, much more (try to aim for building up to 65 mpw) and slower until you can handle faster paces for recovery runs.

I'd say you're doing fine. Increasing your mileage is always going to leave you tired at first. You're doing it right. Run by feel, take your easy runs easy - they're for recovery. As you get used to the distance, the pace of easy running will get faster. After 35 mpw feels comfortable, you can re-evaluate if you need to raise your mileage again.

Bro, this isn't some masters runner. Easy run is a very relative term, and high school runners can push their bodies much harder than someone in their 30s. His body will adapt to the training faster and therefore there needs to be less emphasis on "easy" "recovery" runs and more on getting his mileage up intelligently and making sure he is getting quality aerobic work done in each run, even his "recovery" runs.

If you listen to what's on the web, which again, is geared for masters runners (i.e., the people who have money to spend on sponsored products and content), you'll be missing out on the massive youth advantage that you have.

35mpw is very low for an XC high school runner doing base build. Very low. That's what you would expect out of a JV runner or a varsity runner who doesn't qualify for states. The fact that you're here indicates that's not what you want.

Anything significantly above 8:00 pace is very slow for a high school kid who can run in the mid 19s. You're not going to injure yourself running 50mpw at 8:00 pace, unless there is something wrong with your form or you just have a weak body. Increase your mileage by 5 miles each week until you're at 50mpw. Stay there for maybe 2 weeks, give your body time to adjust. Then either start picking up the pace of your runs, or increase to 60mpw.

And quit doing intervals during base, because that will injure you or burn you out.

Well, my training for past couple of years mostly consists of intervals, cruise intervals (tempos) and slow easy runs. This last winter I run my easy runs at 8:30-8:45 pace. The year before it was 9:00-9:15 and previously it was even slower.

This spring I run HM in 1:16.

My 5000 PB is 16:30 (last spring).

As time goes by and I become faster I can run my easy runs faster and faster. Today my 10 mile easy run were at 8:00 pace which is like 2:00 per mile faster then 2 years ago for the same effort.

For me the worst part is that I really like to go fast and its very boring for me to go at slow 8:00-8:15 pace but I just keep saying to myself that that's the price for success because you don't need to burn yourself out on easy runs. You need to burn yourself on intervals and tempos.

Thanks for the advice guys! Also, I'm pretty much coaching myself right now heading into my junior year of high school. The reason for that is (and I swear I'm not trolling) my coach has us running about 15 mpw the entire summer and constantly tells us our mileage is great.

As a freshman in D1 we ran our 10 mile easy runs at 6:00 pace in season and 6:30 to 7:00 in the off season. In high school none of my runs were slower than 7:00. If you can run a 16:30 5km do not run slower than 7:30.

helpmeout! wrote:

As a freshman in D1 we ran our 10 mile easy runs at 6:00 pace in season and 6:30 to 7:00 in the off season. In high school none of my runs were slower than 7:00. If you can run a 16:30 5km do not run slower than 7:30.

Only a sith deals in absolutes.

@OP, don't listen to this guy. Listen to your body.

That guy is training like an idiot.

High school students, especially those with bad coaching, have no idea how to listen to their bodies, or know how to run or train properly, let alone know what their bodies are capable of.

"Listen to your body" is about as vague and useless of a running tip there is. How about you talk to as many All-State athletes in your league or region that you can and see how they are training, or talk to D1 athletes.

There is a gulf of difference in the training between masters runners who have never run competitively in HS or college and those that currently do. Your body is young, strong and adaptive. Don't train like you're some 30 year old who just started running.

Have to disagree with you. Most high school age runners are actually incredibly weak and injury prone. High school is the time to figure out how to listen to your body and what works for you.

Most HS runners are also JV athletes, running 5K times in the 20s and 1600m times in the 5-7 range. If OP is like "most" HS runners, he really should give up and stop posting on Letsrun.com

Why do you assume the worst about the OP? I assume the best about all HS athletes, until their bodies, injury and times prove otherwise. Until he has pushed himself hard enough, he won't know.

Now is the time to push. If you end up easily injured or running slow times despite better training, then you know you have no future in competitive running, but at least you'll have tried your best and you have nothing to lose.

Edit to add:

The way I see it, there are really only 3 options for any HS runner:

1) If you are untalented, worst case is you'll overtrain, and get injured and ruin a season of XC or track which would have been mediocore anyways. Since you would never have qualified to run in college anyway, you haven't lost anything, other than the ability to run slow, mediocore times for another season.

2) If you are talented, and you overtrain, then yeah injury will set you back. But your times currently indicate you are either untalented, or not training nearly enough. So I find it highly unlikely that you are both talented and overtraining.

3) If you are talented, and you undertrain, then the worst case is you could have been All-State with scholarship letters from D2/D3 schools, and possibly even D1 schools, but you will never know.

Option 3 is the worst, since it can not only result in you not ever realizing your potential, but also because there can be a legitimate economic consequence of losing out on potentially tens of thousands of dollars in scholarship money, not to mention the fact that graduate programs like MBA and law school love applications from D1 athletes with decent grades from good schools.

Basically your principle is throwing the eggs against the wall and seeing who will survive. That is the worst training principle or advise that I've ever seen.

Basically you didn't bother to read my posts, or you have some serious issues with reading comprehension.

My principle is that it is better to slightly overtrain than to significantly undertrain. Also, most HS students and coaches have no idea where that line between optimal training load and overtraining is, so being risk-adverse, they tend to play it way to safe and end up significantly undertraining. Most HS coaches tend to develop training programs for the lowest common denominator, and are exceptionally risk-adverse because they don't want to risk any injury (liability issues). In addition, most HS programs emphasis the "team" over the "individual", and therefore the goal is to get the Varsity boys running together in training all the time, which means finding the lowest common denominator once again. Therefore most HS training is nowhere near what a talented HS kid can physically handle.

Also, these training resoures and online coaches, as good as they are, also play it conservatively. I have had discussions when I was running in college with some of these certified coaches for various programs, and when I asked them whether my NCAA D1 coach was crazy for not following them, they basically all say, "well you guys are different, you guys can handle a lot more stress and adapt faster than the typical runner." So the question is, can we handle more because we were born this way, or because we trained this way for a long time? Probably a bit of both.

Too long didn't read version: there is a strong and direct correlation between high school mileage and high school 5K times. I have never seen a HS kid run 60+ mpw and fail to break 17:00 in the 5K, have you? I have seen a horde of HS kids run 25-35mpw and run anywhere from the 18s-22s, in fact that probably speaks for the majority of all HS XC runners. A few talented kids who run 25-35mpw end up in the 16s, but they are a minority. The kids in the 15s are well into the 60s or above.

I hate the untalented commentary because you just don't know what drives him. He probably has no illusions about being a world/beater.

I was an untalented 6:05 mile 8th grader. But, I loved it.

I never magically got much talent but I'm very proud to have improved gradually every year gotten the most out of what I had. 4:27 mile, 15:50 5K Cc and 33:30 10K.

Then I retired to get an education because that became more important.

I think the op just wants to be all he can be. Help him.

Here's some advice. Stfu and don't ever coach.

Question Mark? wrote:

Here's some advice. Stfu and don't ever coach.

+1 This guy would be trolling, but the way he spews his "message" he is obviously just plain deranged.

This post makes more sense I suppose. Still probably not the best idea for the OP, seeing as he says he's tired after 35 mpw. If OP is tired after 35 mpw, what do you think 60 mpw will do to him? Sure, there's a chance that he makes a big jump; high risk/high reward. However, more likely, he gets injured and is set back significantly. It would make more sense to take a gradual approach.

How quickly he ups his mileage is up to him and depends on how much of a risk he is willing to take. I wouldn't recommend him going above 50 mpw this summer, but like you said, maybe he can?