I bet you're all wishing you had mandatory sign up and registration now ... at least that would stop the majority of the PR sock puppets
I bet you're all wishing you had mandatory sign up and registration now ... at least that would stop the majority of the PR sock puppets
there is a number of intelligent people posting/reading at letsrun. Sure, there is a lot of dumb*sses too
I see what you did here. Cute.
5.6/100
Montesquieu wrote:
Here's the final paragraph of Epstein's "rebuttal":
Salazar also said in his response that Magness “focused on one female runner” and that he told Magness that “he had to make it clear to everyone by his actions that he was not having a physical relationship with an Oregon Project athlete.” Prior to publication of the ProPublica and BBC stories, both Magness and former Oregon Project athlete Jackie Areson told ProPublica and the BBC that they became close while working at the Oregon Project and did have a relationship after both parted from the Oregon Project. At that time, Areson also told ProPublica that Salazar distributed prescription painkillers “like it was candy” and that she “never let [Salazar] massage me because I knew he had the testosterone cream and didn't trust him.” In a follow up, Areson said that it was not “until the start of 2013 that we had a relationship, well after we had moved to Houston.”
Whether any of this is true or not, this is dreadful journalism, and it would receive a poor grade in any journalism class. Epstein quotes Areson as stating that Salazar handed out prescription painkillers like they were candy. To whom? When? What drugs in particular? Over what period of time? Did anyone else witness this? Did Magness? If so, why isn't he quoted to corroborate Areson's statement? To whom did he give massages? Did she witness this? Epstein is writing as an advocate partially masquerading as a journalist.
Within an hour of the news breaking that Magness had left NOP, anonymous posters posted that it was because he was doing Areson.
What!? People lying about having sex with co-workers.
No, that's IMPOSSIBLE in the USA.
Well Rojo I can say that I am far from impressed with your response. You are on here linking to poorly written British articles saying "the just ripped Salazar's response". Let me quote from the article you linked (again because it supports your biased view)"Instead, we are left with the same nagging questions. Such as why Salazar would have taken the medication Androgel for his own needs – reduced testicular activity and low testosterone serum levels, he says, unflinchingly – when the medication is harmful for anyone with a heart condition, like him? No explanation for that in this mountain of words."Makes you wonder if they have even read Salazar's response. To quote from Salazar's response"Second, I did not tell John Stiner that my Androgel was for my heart. It isn’t. It is for my overall health. I have fully disclosed my Androgel prescription to my cardiologist, Dr. Todd Caulfield. Dr. Caulfield and I fully discussed the risks and benefits of my continued Androgel therapy. See Exhibit 27. My treatments also were discussed with my primary internal medicine physician, Dr. Kristina Harp. See Exhibit 29. Ultimately, it was decided the benefits of preserving my energy and ability to exercise outweighed the small risk of continued Androgel use. See Exhibit 27. "And from the letter from his cardiologist "ultimately we decided that the cardiovascular benefits of preserving his energy level and ability to exercise outweighed the SMALL risk of continued androgel use"Stop linking trash journalism.
rojo wrote:
rojo wrote:I'm working on the homepage tonight. I just came across an column by Oliver Brown, a UK columnist, that will shoot a thrill up the legs of NOP skeptics much like President Obama's old speeches did for Chris Matthews.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/mo-farah/11697636/Sorry-Alberto-Salazar-but-the-haters-will-carry-on-hating.htmlVicioius.
Imagine if I wrote something like that. A few excerpts.
and
That all appears in the first 4 paragraphs.
Man the British press is brutal. The Independent was far from impressed as well. Here is another article that came out before Epstein's response that just ripped Alberto's response.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/alberto-salazar-plenty-of-words-but-throwing-open-records-would-say-more-10343718.htmlThe Independent wrote:
The attention to detail was so relentless and fastidious that you can see precisely what leads Mo Farah to such unstinting devotion to the man who has turned him into a winner. We had waited three weeks for any sign of a defence from Alberto Salazar and these near 12,000 words were true to his reputation.
Yet amid the explanations, and personal assassinations, there was no stunning revelation in what Salazar had to say. The family of Galen Rupp aside, there was no army of witnesses rolled out to say that the evidence Panorama and ProPublica broadcast about the coach was rotten to the core.
Are people trolling/gaslighting with this stuff? I can't understand ho someone can find that litigated BS as evidence for epstein's camp
magness man wrote:
LetsRun.com wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/mo-farah/11696895/Alberto-Salazar-latest-Mo-Farahs-coach-breaks-silence-on-doping-allegations.htmlThat's got some good stuff. I didn't read all of Magness's letter. HEre is a summary:
Telegraph wrote:
"However, the Daily Telegraph has seen Magness’s official contract termination letter that casts major doubt on Salazar’s version of events.
The letter from Nike, sent in June 2012, made it expressly clear that it was a “mutual decision to terminate the contract”.
It then concluded: “Should an opportunity present itself to work together again in the future, Nike would welcome consideration of such an opportunity.”
So Salazar tries to act like Magness was let go as he sucked yet in reality it was clear Magness wasn't comfortable there.
Okay, as above, within an hour or so of the news that Magness had left NOP, anonymous posters posted here that it was because he was romantically involved, with Areson.
Maybe they didn't have a sexual relationship, but there's several thousand years of human history arguing against that, and a hundred thousand years of human evolutions betting they fcked, and Magness was asked to leave quietly, and in return, rather than destroy Magnesses hopes for a career in the sport, Salazar did what a lot of employers do -- agree to part nice. Stupidly, evidently, Salazar/Nike did not include a mutual non disparage clause.
Magness will be proven a liar at least once in all this, and if he lied once, you really want to believe to young people, one a female runner girl he fawned after...yeah, no, no-o way he slipped her the sausage.
tgfhgfghf wrote:
While it definitely does not make me trust Salazar, I think people should actually read his response, which includes copies of many documents directly refuting allegations before claiming that the ProPublica guy saying saladbars response is bad because it addressed accusations outside the article. I mean a lot of people have been talking about the whole andro-gel hotel room incident for years now and alberto just proved that it is his....
Also this told us a lot more about Galen's thyroid and allergy issues than we have ever known before.
Yes we learned more, but I'm betting the majority of poop stirrers here missed the plain fact that the first mentions of both were by Salazar to local sports press, years ago.
I feel like I am reading a tabloid. The funny part about it is that I thought I was going to have an intelligent conversation about my work LOL
tgfhgfghf wrote:
While it definitely does not make me trust Salazar, I think people should actually read his response, which includes copies of many documents directly refuting allegations before claiming that the ProPublica guy saying saladbars response is bad because it addressed accusations outside the article. I mean a lot of people have been talking about the whole andro-gel hotel room incident for years now and alberto just proved that it is his....
Also this told us a lot more about Galen's thyroid and allergy issues than we have ever known before.
Yes we learned more -- but I'm betting the majority of poop stirrers here over the years never knew the plain fact that the first mentions of both were by Salazar to local sports press, years ago... He could have said nothing. Instead he was open about his athletes health issues, and he's been paid in hate by Jobro's and backstabbers.
DMVarea wrote:
Really, Rojo? Where is the unbiased reporting? And why would Salazar need to roll out an "army of witnesses" to defend himself? He used what he had, documents and alleged facts. I'm skeptical. Some of what he asserted as doing sounded shady as all hell.
But c'mon, Rojo. You sound like a giggly half-autistic schoolboy. You spelled vicious wrong and then said imagine if I wrote something like that. If you wrote something with such vitriol, then you wouldn't be the shoddy journalist you are. You'd just be an editorialist. Have some more dignity.
Or start a site called letswitchhunt.com - "where your possible guilt is your reality"
The evident glee the "Jobro's" have for this shite shows they are on some scale of sociopaths or Asperger's.
1 side wrote:
rojo wrote:I posted this in the messageboard before the rebuttal came out. Epstein addressed it in the article. It's very clear.
Kara says that Alberto told her to take Cytomel without a prescription - and gave her the handwritten pill bottle- which Dr. Brown says he'd never hand out - in March/April of 2011.
Here is what Epstein wrote in the initial BBC report.
Colt Goucher - according to Alberto's document - was born on September 25, 2010.
So five + months from then would be February/March. So it was in the leadup to her pretty amazing 2:24 run in Boston just months after becoming a mom.
Epstein confirms this in his most recent piece:
Salazar produced a note from Dr. Brown for August which had absolutely nothing to do with the allegations. It was a very clever rebuttal by him. Discredit Kara with facts that aren't relevant at all.
Also note, Brown vehemntly denies he'd ever give Kara a handwritten prescription. Someone committed a prescription drug violation and Brown says it wasn't him.
It's very interesting also that Salazar says Brown set up the experiment to dope Alex Salazar, "The Gatlin case involved testosterone so we decided to see if rubbing Androgel on an athlete after a race could cause a positive test. Dr. Jeffery Brown set up the experiment," but Brown flat denies that.
Dr. Brown denied that. Doping a guy with testosterone who doesn't need it would be a big potential no-no for an MD.
In the end, people protect their own asses. By doping Alex Salazar, either Brown or Alberto likely committed a crime. Netiher wants to be cop responsibilty for that one.
Salazar refutes Gouchers allegation about him being uncomfortable about her weight and recommending Cytomel during the February/march 2011 timeframe. He references emails and statements he made to NOP nutritionist and to Goucher during that timeframe. His evidence indicates he HAD NO ISSUE with her weight.
Salazar references a different situation in August 2011 when citing Dr Brown recommending Cytomel for Goucher.
Now you may not want to believe him or his evidence, but I don't see how the evidence/claims Salazar provided in regards to his position on Gouchers weight is NOT responsive to Gouchers allegation that he WAS NOT comfortable with her weight. He says he was and was NOT trying to have her lose weight. If that was the case why would he suggest Cytomel at that time?
Bringing up Cytomel as it relates to 2011 is very relevant because the Salazar is asserting that he only gave it to her on doctors orders, not for weight loss.
I don't see how Salazar's claims and evidence are trying to cover up Boston with anything, he providing evidence to support his claims.
It is important to remember that Kara was struggling a bit in races in early 2011 (not a knock on her; pretty amazing that she was even racing so soon after giving birth), and was looking a bit "heavy" at Cross Nats:
http://www.runnerspace.com/members/photos/383/123593_full.jpgBut she started to come around fairly quickly afterward, and finished a close 3rd at the NYRR Half in March:
http://www.runblogrun.com/assets_c/2011/03/Goucher_Kara-NYChalf11-thumb-400x600-1104.jpgSo it wouldn't be surprising if Alberto was upbeat about her weight in March or April, but had been obsessing about it only a month or so earlier in February.
To a few people asking questions.quote]Man Overboard wrote:We were led to believe that Epstein was harboring a ton of additional evidence that he would use to trap and contradict any AlSal rebuttal. WHERE IS THAT EVIDENCE? All I see is defense and backpedaling.[/quote]Where did you get that idea? Epstein came out with Lauren Fleshman's stuff before Alberto's response. He could have waited if he was trying to play gotcha.
If u haven't hired/fired stfu wrote:
And the it is NOT responsible journalism to present such a doc/common hr practice as if it really means in a conventional sense that the employee's termination was mutual. This is the weak tea that Propublica, The Daily mail and now Telegraph are peddling in their defense - pretty fricking weak
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6582249&page=1
Did you miss the sentence before from Epstein, "Emails from Salazar, provided by Magness, express “complete confidence” in him just one month earlier.
So it is not just an HR letter. Epstein claims he has a letter where Salazar expressed "complete confidence" in Magness 1 month before they part ways.
Salazar portrayed Magness as an incompetent employee.
Man Overboard wrote:
Maybe I'm being presumptuous that the brojos will actually read this - but I'd really like Mr. Epstein to ask Kara Goucher the following pertinent question and the brojos seem to be buddy-buddy with him so maybe they have some pull:
When EXACTLY does Kara say she received that bottle of Cytomel? Was it March/April before Boston....or August before the WC? Let's have our intrepid investigative reporter ask some hard questions and get the full truth out in the open.
Epstein's response is long on 'bbbbut we never accused AlSal of that in the first place' and short on new details.
We were led to believe that Epstein was harboring a ton of additional evidence that he would use to trap and contradict any AlSal rebuttal. WHERE IS THAT EVIDENCE? All I see is defense and backpedaling.
From the article: "In his response, Salazar said that he never criticized Goucher’s weight and that Brown, Goucher’s endocrinologist, is the one who directed him to give Cytomel to Goucher at the world championships in Daegu, South Korea, in August 2011. The ProPublica and BBC accounts referred to an instance earlier in 2011, in March, prior to the Boston Marathon. “His story is a different timeline,” Goucher told ProPublica. “He’s trying to use Daegu to cover up Boston.”
So she is saying March. Alberto is talking about much later.
Man Overboard wrote:
We were led to believe that Epstein was harboring a ton of additional evidence that he would use to trap and contradict any AlSal rebuttal. WHERE IS THAT EVIDENCE? All I see is defense and backpedaling.
No evidence needed, Salazar has already hung himself by admitting the Androgel "sabotage" trial. Even if Dr. Brown hadn't quickly denied running the trial himself, it reflects badly on Salazar's character that he used his sons as medical guinea pigs to supposedly protect his athletes from groping massage therapists.
You are going to have to realize that savvy track fans have heard that line over and over again for decades - the "unintentional use" excuse. Busted athletes claiming foul play, or feigning ignorance of the contents of a supplement or cold medicine. Lies, lies, lies, and they do it routinely now because the rules reward them with lighter sanctions for playing stupid. Few of us believe that Salazar was truly worried that his athletes might be unwittingly doped by somebody. It is a really way-out, far-fetched story and badly damages his credibility.
And if Dr. Brown is telling the truth, then Salazar was apparently distributing the Androgel illegally, which is even worse. If he can't discredit Brown, he'll likely be banned from coaching.
Waiting for Salazar's chimera defense . . .
I'm truly amazed that the tinfoil hat crew based out of London would have us believe that there's a coordinated conspiracy against Salazar and the NOP. If it were just one person, OK. But somehow there's a conspiracy here involving many in-the-know individuals -- what happened, did they all get together at Magness' house and say "hey, let's unjustly sully our former coach and boss's name?"
There are lots of contradicting stories among the two sides that need to be sorted out. To me, the androgel trial on Alberto's sons is the most interesting. Alberto presented e-mails from someone named Jeff who clearly knew the trial was actually occurring and was giving advice on how to conduct the trial.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0248/8471/files/Exhibit_17.pdf?10179272499514451932
However, ProPublica reported that Jeff Brown said he would never do that: "In an interview, Brown said he did not prescribe a controlled substance for Salazar’s sons or other research subjects as part of an experiment. “No, absolutely not,” Brown said. “I didn’t do that, and would not do that. I would never do that.” He said that he was merely advising Salazar on how to conduct research on potential sabotage “in a hypothetical situation.”
So who is telling the truth? How much faith can we put in a printout of an e-mail, especially when the e-mail is provided by someone we don't trust to tell the truth?
Paddler wrote:
This place is usually dead at this time of the night in the US. But today it's just pumping, and all with posters sympathetic towards Salazar.
To our friends across the pond I just want to say: CHEERIO LADS, STIFF UPPER LIP AND CARRY ON!
Idiot of the week? You can't figure out why it was not dead last night compared to other nights?? Oh, and you think it's more reasonable someone is posting in the early AM across the pond then maybe someone posting on the west coast???
get ugly wrote:
There are lots of contradicting stories among the two sides that need to be sorted out. To me, the androgel trial on Alberto's sons is the most interesting. Alberto presented e-mails from someone named Jeff who clearly knew the trial was actually occurring and was giving advice on how to conduct the trial.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0248/8471/files/Exhibit_17.pdf?10179272499514451932However, ProPublica reported that Jeff Brown said he would never do that: "In an interview, Brown said he did not prescribe a controlled substance for Salazar’s sons or other research subjects as part of an experiment. “No, absolutely not,” Brown said. “I didn’t do that, and would not do that. I would never do that.” He said that he was merely advising Salazar on how to conduct research on potential sabotage “in a hypothetical situation.”
So who is telling the truth? How much faith can we put in a printout of an e-mail, especially when the e-mail is provided by someone we don't trust to tell the truth?
He also never addressed the coaching Slaney issue. Not a single word about it. He is lying there and there is way too much documentation that proves he coached her.
Anyone who could possibly think for one second that Alberto believed Gatlin's story about being sabotaged is just fooling themselves. It's ridiculous. If they also believe that Salazar was conducting those "tests" in order to combat sabotage or to find out for himself it was real, is even more foolish. To try and paint his behavior of giving his children drugs that they were not prescribed (and goucher for that matter) as anything other than illegal and immoral is moronic.
Posted this in another thread... I find that email/message chain interesting. I'm not sure if I'm reading it correctly, but the time stamps of the messages aren't sequential. It also looks like Salazar was responding from somewhere in the Central Time Zone, same as Houston. I'd be interested to know where those tests took place. Salazar writes as if he was there when they happened. And if the "Jeff" who signed the email is Dr. Brown, he sure as hell knew they were rubbing testosterone on two people who did not need it for medical reasons.
get ugly wrote:
There are lots of contradicting stories among the two sides that need to be sorted out. To me, the androgel trial on Alberto's sons is the most interesting. Alberto presented e-mails from someone named Jeff who clearly knew the trial was actually occurring and was giving advice on how to conduct the trial.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0248/8471/files/Exhibit_17.pdf?10179272499514451932However, ProPublica reported that Jeff Brown said he would never do that: "In an interview, Brown said he did not prescribe a controlled substance for Salazar’s sons or other research subjects as part of an experiment. “No, absolutely not,” Brown said. “I didn’t do that, and would not do that. I would never do that.” He said that he was merely advising Salazar on how to conduct research on potential sabotage “in a hypothetical situation.”
So who is telling the truth? How much faith can we put in a printout of an e-mail, especially when the e-mail is provided by someone we don't trust to tell the truth?
cont wrote:
Please read this Johnson bros. I don't know if you've hired out front page work or something else, but lots of us would appreciate a far more professional job .
No one calls them the Jonson bros, except for PR company folks ... and no one who posts here regularly would appreciate a far more professional job.
Hey, PR Company - your employees REALLY suck at this. LOL
[quote]This one too wrote:
He also never addressed the coaching Slaney issue. Not a single word about it. He is lying there and there is way too much documentation that proves he coached her.quote]
Sleazy wasn't Slaney's official coach. It was worse than that. He was the official guy for providing nutritional and medical support for her.
Am I living in the twilight zone? The Boston Marathon weather was terrible!
Is there a rule against attaching a helium balloon to yourself while running a road race?
How rare is it to run a sub 5 minute mile AND bench press 225?
Matt Choi was drinking beer halfway through the Boston Marathon
Move over Mark Coogan, Rojo and John Kellogg share their 3 favorite mile workouts
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion
Des Linden: "The entire sport" has changed since she first started running Boston.
