NOP New Jun 20: Salazar trying to get Testoboost maker on his side...

Sammy Pasqual wrote:

It seems obvious that "Dr" Di Pasquale is a necessary part of Salazar's defense team. Salazar is better off taking the 5th and not doing himself anymore damage.

Salazar's immediate retirement is a necessary first step to limit further damage to the NOP runners.

If Salazar wishes to obtain company records indicating he's been ordering the product since Rupp was 16, more power to him for making the attempt. No idea if those records will be available even if this is true (as I suspect is the case, given his apparent attempt to obtain them), but it seems Salazar is simply being as diligent and thorough as he can be.

lol lol lol lol wrote:

Sammy Pasqual wrote:

It seems obvious that "Dr" Di Pasquale is a necessary part of Salazar's defense team. Salazar is better off taking the 5th and not doing himself anymore damage.

Salazar's immediate retirement is a necessary first step to limit further damage to the NOP runners.

If Salazar wishes to obtain company records indicating he's been ordering the product since Rupp was 16, more power to him for making the attempt. No idea if those records will be available even if this is true (as I suspect is the case, given his apparent attempt to obtain them), but it seems Salazar is simply being as diligent and thorough as he can be.

I would assume that NOP would have had receipts. It's not as though Alberto was buying them on the street in an alley or anything. or maybe?

Records of buying Testoboost does exactly nothing to contest the allegations made against Salazar.

No one denies that athletes sometimes took this supplement.

He should be reaching out to the person who created the Magness chart and who apparently mislabeled Testosterone meds to get a statement. I wonder why he hasn't.

Salazar's current approach is like a teenager whose parents suspect he is smoking pot, and in order to prove he didn't take the pot, the teenager claims he smoked fake pot. So the teenager emails the manufacturer of some synthetic fake pot the teenager bought on the Internet to 1) show that he ordered the fake pot and 2) asking the manufacturer to prove there's no THC in the pot.

Even if all this were true, the teenager is still trying to get high, and going to great lengths to do so. No small comfort to the parents.

Obviously, one can so smoke fake pot and real pot at the same time.

The doctor who "mislabeled" the Magness chart is dead, unfortunately.

However, I agree with the bulk of your post. So what if Salazar manages to prove that he purchased Testoboost in 2002 -- that doesn't mean he wasn't also using real testosterone (ie androgel) on Rupp.

Jeff Chalkers wrote:

The doctor who "mislabeled" the Magness chart is dead, unfortunately.

However, I agree with the bulk of your post. So what if Salazar manages to prove that he purchased Testoboost in 2002 -- that doesn't mean he wasn't also using real testosterone (ie androgel) on Rupp.

Are we sure about that? I know Dr. Myhre is the recently-passed physician who allegedly suggested athletes take drugs to get there testosterone levels back to normal, noting "Well no, I mean Alberto does it."

But are we sure that this is the same Dr. Myhre who made those charts? I'm not so sure. I'd be surprised if a physician was actually making all the charts on his own.

No gloves used; I used my bare hands with every athlete; massage lubricant products were those I own. Worry less about testoboost/alpha male products; start back with and continue with androgel.

Use your brains. Conspiracy theories are fun and all, but the whole idea of massage-therapist-as-PED-conduit is absurd on every level. If anyone getting a rubdown is getting topical steroid hormones in the process, it's not by frigging accident.

chemist wrote:

The testoboost is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the total testosterone level, no matter where it came from.

Right. Going down Salazar's rabbit hole to hide Test use at NOP, on teenagers, is going to be progressively more confused because it's all lies.

It's a good strategy though. Keep talking nonsense to distract from the Test use on teenagers. That's why Al Sal is the boss.

erik wrote:

But are we sure that this is the same Dr. Myhre who made those charts? I'm not so sure. I'd be surprised if a physician was actually making all the charts on his own.

One thing we're sure about is that Myhre is NOT a medical doctor. He's an exercise scientist. All these claims that the graph is some sort of medical record are just fantasy.

Stoned on fake pot wrote:

Records of buying Testoboost does exactly nothing to contest the allegations made against Salazar.

He should be reaching out to the person who created the Magness chart and who apparently mislabeled Testosterone meds to get a statement. I wonder why he hasn't.

Have you seen his defense? How do you know he hasn't reached out to them? What if the chart was made from the doctor (drawing a blank on his name) that has passed away?

In reading these posts it is apparent that there is nothing Salazar can actually do that will convince most of you. He very well might be guilty, but assume for a minute he isn't. With the standards many are holding him to there is nothing he can do that can disprove a lot of the claims. If I say you had Subway for lunch on November 10, 2003 it is likely going to be hard to prove that's not what you had. I really think most are holding Salazar, guilty or not, to an impossible standard of evidence to prove he's innocent.

The Truth:

Testoboost and Alpha Male contained a designer steroid during the 2000's. It was more than just tribulus. Users reported significantly greater effects compared to regular tribulus supplementation. Testboost and Alpha Male from this time period (if any still exists) should be chemicals analyzed to see what secret sauce was fuelling erections and muscles besides tribulus.

canspo wrote:

[quote] If I say you had Subway for lunch on November 10, 2003 it is likely going to be hard to prove that's not what you had. I really think most are holding Salazar, guilty or not, to an impossible standard of evidence to prove he's innocent.

If I say you had Subway for lunch on November 10, 2003 and then I released the Subway store's security video of you walking in on the date 11/10/03, I'd say your task of proving you didn't have Subway is going to be a difficult one.

You're correct in saying that there really is nothing Alberto will be able to say or do that will convince some people that he isn't using illegal stuff. That's unfortunate for him and for his athletes if everything is legal. But it's also hard to look at the NOP's fascination with technology and medical/biochemical intervention and not wonder whether or not they've strayed to the wrong side of the line. If that's the approach Alberto is using to make successful athletes I think he just needs to accept that the suspicions are part of the cost of doing business.

is this a cover for something else?

Albuterol Salazar wrote:

canspo wrote:

[quote] If I say you had Subway for lunch on November 10, 2003 it is likely going to be hard to prove that's not what you had. I really think most are holding Salazar, guilty or not, to an impossible standard of evidence to prove he's innocent.

If I say you had Subway for lunch on November 10, 2003 and then I released the Subway store's security video of you walking in on the date 11/10/03, I'd say your task of proving you didn't have Subway is going to be a difficult one.

Fair enough. That was a bad example. Alberto is going to need to have some strong information to exonerate himself. The main point was, that there are some things that simple cannot be refuted (or proved). You have to look at the body of evidence. Right now it doesn't look great for Alberto. On the other hand, if Salazar is innocent, it seems that the expectations of some are that he can only prove he's innocent by proving things that are impossible to prove.

Imagine my wife accuses me of cheating on her.

I can't prove I didn't.

So then one would ask: why would my wife expect me of cheating? Either:

1) she's angry/bitter and -- especially -- delusional to the point of false accusations

or

2) i've been acting suspiciously

Nearly everyone in the NOP 17 is surely angry, somewhat bitter. But there's no evidence of delusion.

Instead, the reason Salazar is dealing with this stuff is because the NOP has been suspicious in terms of "legal" medical enhancement. And, if others are to believed, illegal medical enhancement.

In any event, their own practices brought upon these investigations and suspicions.

Interestingly, usually when someone is accused of cheating, even if they didn't ACTUALLY have sex with someone else, there's still usually wrong-doing to spur on the accusation. Late nights, shady excuses, evidence of flirting, etc.

Analogously, if Salazar truly ran a pan y agua operation, never coached dopers in the past, didnt have a stable of people who are seemingly more sickly than the average American couch potato etc. ... this would never have been an issue. Instead, there's TUEs, vials, syringes, medical charts, etc. that all look very suspicious.

I think it's actually a stupid thing to wonder whether Salazar is "innocent" at this point, without saying "innocent of what?" He's clearly guilty of treading along the line of the gray zone with the coaching of athletes to get TUEs, providing Rx medications to people without scripts, etc.. The evidence in that regard is pretty damn solid unless you truly believe multiple people would all lie for no reason but spite. Unlikely.

What people really mean when they wonder if he's guilty is whether his athletes took banned substances. I'm not sure we'll ever know that.

If allegations are true he was on testosterone as a 16 year old the statue of limitations has run out and therefore it won't strike against him.

tues for inhalers/thyroid/prednisone aren't going to get them thrown out of the sport of track and field. He got the tues through USATF/WADA anyhow.

This is all we have as of now and it's really just a witch hunt at this point. Do you know how many "pros" are on TUES that aren't associated with the NOP. I personally know of several that claim to have "low thyroid," or "asthma from allergies." Most of them won't say anything because they have a "legit medical condition tested by a REAL doctor" and the NOP's isn't...

What's the difference?

stopthewitchhunt wrote:

If allegations are true he was on testosterone as a 16 year old the statue of limitations has run out and therefore it won't strike against him....

What would Salazar's defense be? "Yes, I gave a 16-year-old drugs to improve his 'performance', but it was so along ago there is nothing anyone can do about it."

This would be an epic fail by Salazar. Salazar's only way out is to deny the allegations. Because he has denied them already the statute of limitation rules don't apply when making false statements.

Making False Statements: 18 U.S. Code § 1001 - Statements or entries generally;

"Most commonly, prosecutors use this statute to reach cover-up crimes such as perjury, false declarations, and obstruction of justice and government fraud cases."

I think we're pretty much saying the same thing. You're just more detailed than I am. It could be that your wife is paranoid or psychotic when she accuses you of cheating. If only she makes the accusation the problem may well be her though she's still making the claim in response to something you've done or not done in all likelihood. If a dozen other people also think you're cheating on her it's not because they're all paranoid or psychotic. As you point out, you've done something to generate the accusations and that's also my point about NOP. Maybe the success they've had makes it worthwhile for them to generate that sort of suspicion but they can't just call the whole thing a witch hunt.